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<blockquote data-quote="Ariosto" data-source="post: 5271064" data-attributes="member: 80487"><p>Before Middenheim, there were such products as <em>Sewers of Oblivion</em> (Flying Buffalo, 1980) and <em>Wraith Overlord</em> (Judges Guild, 1981).</p><p></p><p>Paul Jaquays' OD&D <em>The Caverns of Thracia</em> (featuring a lost city) and AD&D <em>Dark Tower</em> (featuring a village where all is not as it seems, and a buried temple of evil) appeared between the releases of the PHB and DMG, 1978-79. "Dungeon society" figures in them.</p><p></p><p>Yes, but I don't think Conan ever called Thoth-Amon "E.H.P."! In D&D Vol.2, there is a Scarab of Protection from Evil High Priests that absorbs the dreaded "Finger of Death".</p><p></p><p></p><p>That famous trifecta of tropes came, IIRC, from Rob Kuntz's Kalibruhn campaign, in which Gary Gygax got to play at last after so much DMing and writing.</p><p></p><p>"A medusa" itself is a definite D&D-ism! The mythical Medusa was one of three Gorgons (her sisters being Stheno and Euryale). "Pegasi" are another example of making an individual's name that of the species.</p><p></p><p>D&D plays freely with tradition. "Unlike the standard mythological concept of the Hydra being a snake with many heads, these beasts are large dinosaurs with multiple heads," Vol. 2 noted.</p><p></p><p>I'm not sure what you're about here, Doug. The term "underdark" came later, and the Underworld was "deeper and stranger" level by level from the start. Certainly mention of subterranean lakes and seas goes back at least to Part 3 of Joe Fischer's "Hints For D&D Judges", and figured -- along with an underground city -- in the "skull mountain" elevation view in Holmes Basic.</p><p></p><p>C.S. Lewis provided quite a bit of inspiration for future dungeon masters in <em>The Silver Chair</em> (1953). That includes, of course, the Sunless Sea and the city of the Queen of Underland (a.k.a. the Deep Realm).</p><p></p><p>Or like a whole skull, as in that cross-section in Holmes Basic?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ariosto, post: 5271064, member: 80487"] Before Middenheim, there were such products as [I]Sewers of Oblivion[/I] (Flying Buffalo, 1980) and [I]Wraith Overlord[/I] (Judges Guild, 1981). Paul Jaquays' OD&D [I]The Caverns of Thracia[/I] (featuring a lost city) and AD&D [I]Dark Tower[/I] (featuring a village where all is not as it seems, and a buried temple of evil) appeared between the releases of the PHB and DMG, 1978-79. "Dungeon society" figures in them. Yes, but I don't think Conan ever called Thoth-Amon "E.H.P."! In D&D Vol.2, there is a Scarab of Protection from Evil High Priests that absorbs the dreaded "Finger of Death". That famous trifecta of tropes came, IIRC, from Rob Kuntz's Kalibruhn campaign, in which Gary Gygax got to play at last after so much DMing and writing. "A medusa" itself is a definite D&D-ism! The mythical Medusa was one of three Gorgons (her sisters being Stheno and Euryale). "Pegasi" are another example of making an individual's name that of the species. D&D plays freely with tradition. "Unlike the standard mythological concept of the Hydra being a snake with many heads, these beasts are large dinosaurs with multiple heads," Vol. 2 noted. I'm not sure what you're about here, Doug. The term "underdark" came later, and the Underworld was "deeper and stranger" level by level from the start. Certainly mention of subterranean lakes and seas goes back at least to Part 3 of Joe Fischer's "Hints For D&D Judges", and figured -- along with an underground city -- in the "skull mountain" elevation view in Holmes Basic. C.S. Lewis provided quite a bit of inspiration for future dungeon masters in [I]The Silver Chair[/I] (1953). That includes, of course, the Sunless Sea and the city of the Queen of Underland (a.k.a. the Deep Realm). Or like a whole skull, as in that cross-section in Holmes Basic? [/QUOTE]
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