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Message: <blockquote data-quote="rmcoen" data-source="post: 7756572" data-attributes="member: 6692404">I agree with the observation that many D&D adventures feel like Westerns (ride in, fix it, move on).  Never realized it, but that's spot-on.The observation about "succeed because powerful" vs. "succeed despite weak" was an interesting observation as well.  Another thing I hadn't really noticed, and now wonder why.In many of the fantasy stories that I have read, the hero succeeds because of some innate thing that makes them *special*.  Sometimes, other people help/make them succeed because of The Special (Frodo and the Fellowship, initially; protectors of the royal heir).  Othertimes though - and frequently - it's "wow, I didn't realize just how special/powerful/awesome I really am".  D&D heroes tend to be in this category... fighters with their hp (ahem, nigh super-human determination to soldier on despite otherwise-debilitating wounds/circumstances/magic), wizards with spell progression (ahem, mastering the burgeoning power that they didn't want / didn't know / didn't understand), etc.   I just finished reading the extension to the "The Deed of Paksenarrion" (Elizabeth Moon), wherein a simple farmgirl *eventually* grows into a Paladin... so very D&D.  (maybe 3e, with Paladin being more Prestige Class than Core)Personally, I really liked 3e's NPC classes as a distinction -- Warrior 4 vs. Fighter 4 made a nice distinction between PC and NPC, without "trapping" the world at "my cat can kill you" Level 0 (1d4 hp) while the heroes achieved epic potential.  I even wrote rules for how characters with NPC classes could improve themselves, "upgrading" to PC classes through training and experience (for example, the half-orc Warrior 4 the party rehabilitated and hired, who eventually "grew" to Fighter 6 under two PCs' tutelage instead of Warrior 7).I like heroes - in games and stories - to have that flashing neon "PC" sign, to have that Special.  It aids my suspension of disbelief, how the hero doesn't get killed, narrowly escapes, and just plain doesn't catch a cold camping in the moors for a week.  the flip side of that - in current popularity - is Game of Thrones... "main" characters die, are permanently maimed or disfigured, and so on.  Much more "real" - but I wouldn't want to be that character's player!Last tangent.  1e encouraged those wandering adventurers to eventually put down roots.  Pacify frontier and build a stronghold.  Capture marauding monsters and use them as guards in a Tower.  Tame the local criminal world and organize it into a Guild.  Establish a new Temple.  Spends hundreds of thousands on improving the world, anchor yourself to a place and a government (even though you can likely single-handedly kill the head of the government *and* his entire army), and get into politics.  2e took that away; 3e was the "Me Generation"; 4e took it a step further and said "level 1-10, you are in the old west; 11-20 your setting is Earth; 21-30, your backdrop is stars/mist/alien worlds".  Characters who want to be *part* of the world instead of David Caradine's Kung Fu drop out of the campaign (and stagnate).  In my current 4e campaign (level 25), the heroes have established a new Monastery to the Raven Queen (Avenger and Paladin 6 leave party), cleansed and are rebuilding a dwarven Undermount city (Paladin 10 leaves party), rebuilt a "point of light" citystate and established a new Arcane Academy (ironically, Psionic Warrior 14 leaves party to become King), and recaptured a monster-conquered citystate and added it to now-Empire (current PC's Epic Destiny of God-Emperor).I forget where I was going with that...Thanks to the OP for bringing up this topic, and all the discussion of the roots and influences.</blockquote>

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