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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 5112738" data-attributes="member: 4937">Given that the blogger addressed a range of genera that included science fiction, and that the main target of his post was a science fiction game, I think it quite appropriate to bring in biology.This is something I pointed out in a slightly different way within the rant. Well, to begin with, it's never said that orcs are not human at all.  In fact, we know that elves and humans are genetically identical (at least in the same sense that you and I are genetically identical), and at the time of the completion of LotR the somewhat murky conception of the author as to exactly what orcs were was that they were either of elvish or human stock, which would have made them genetically identical to the other two either way.So, in fact, its much fairer to say that the orcs are in fact humans. And while it is not an open question that the presentation of the orcs/easterlings was deeply rooted in allusions to the repeated invasion of Europe from the East, it is ridiculous to assert that they are "a anti-Turkic/Asian/Hun caricature" because well, they are not nor are they intended to represent turks, huns, or mongols at all.  Tolkien abhored symbolism and allogory, and had a far better understanding of the ideas of 'one to one' and 'onto' than you seem to display.  He would have been appalled by attempts claim that he was asserting that the Monguls were orcs or even orcish in nature, or at least, to assert that Asian people were more prone to orcish behavior than humanity in general.  The claim that orcs are a Turkish caricature has no more basis in fact than the equally unread claim that the Sauron was an allegory for Hitler and the orcs were Waffen SS.I'm not even sure what that means.  Is there anyway to present races that isn't expressive of 'racialized thinking'?  Why in the heck are we fighting the 'nurture vs. nature' fight in proxy through fictional alien species, and why in the heck would you think thats the only thing the author is interested in when he creates an alien species?   Tolkien didn't really even have a bone in the 'nurture vs. nature' fight as we'd normally phrase it in modern terms; as you pointed out he's not really writing about biology or upbringing, but rather a fight between 'the better angels of our being' and our 'demons'.</blockquote>

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