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D&D and the rising pandemic
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<blockquote data-quote="Deset Gled" data-source="post: 8083658" data-attributes="member: 7808"><p>To start with by laying this out on the table, I 100% agree that these people should be locked up, and that law enforcement should be able to enforce mask laws. I also don't believe these people actually had a medical condition that would prevent them from wearing masks, and I personally do not really believe there is any medical condition that prevents someone from wearing a mask. I totally and completely <em>want </em>things to play out exactly as you describe them. That being said, I do not have the faith in the legal system that you do. </p><p></p><p>The basic problem, IMNHO, is that once someone says "I have a medical condition" I think the law is on their side that they don't have to provide information with what that condition is. Specifically addressing your reasons:</p><p></p><p>1. I don't know that the laws in question require disclosure. The one in PA (where I live) was a governor's decree, definitely doesn't include provisions for it. People are required to disclose things like abuse and gun shot wounds, but there is no language in the mask mandates about disclosure of conditions. I don't know what laws would apply on a boat in NY.</p><p></p><p>2. 4. 5. and 7. To the best of my knowledge these are exceptions that deal with a health care provider turning over information to law enforcement. In this case, there was no care provider being questioned, so they wouldn't be applicable. Now, if the people had said "I have a condition, I'm being treated at XYZ Doctor's office for it", this would allow the cops to check with the doctor. But there's nothing requiring the people to give this information.</p><p></p><p>7. and 10. Are the ones that would really apply in this case. The problematic part is that everything I have read about this (IANAL) uses the term "imminent threat". E.g, the medical issue must be imminent threatening others. If the people who refuse to mask are asymptomatic, I don't know if they could legally be considered an imminent threat (again, my personal opinion differing from the law). Also, statements from certain high profile government officials might lend credence to the threat not being so imminent.</p><p></p><p>Furthermore, in PA there are actually laws that protect you from requiring disclose your medical conditions. The cases that I know of are are probably based on ADA requirements rather than HIPAA, but I know that establishments are specifically not allowed to ask people about medical conditions with regards to service dogs or wheelchairs. Basically, an establishment cannot bar you from using medically required aids and is extremely limited in what questions they can ask about them; they can ask what service or needs you have, but are expressly barred from asking you what the underlying medical condition is. I don't know if the same laws that protect people who are using medical aids could protect people who refuse to use medical aids.</p><p></p><p>At the end of the day, I'm really curious because I don't know of any case law yet that actually upholds these mask laws. In every case that I've seen locally, the real charge is for trespassing or disturbing the peace, or something similar. I really want to see a case about mask laws make it through the legal system to see how it plays out.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Deset Gled, post: 8083658, member: 7808"] To start with by laying this out on the table, I 100% agree that these people should be locked up, and that law enforcement should be able to enforce mask laws. I also don't believe these people actually had a medical condition that would prevent them from wearing masks, and I personally do not really believe there is any medical condition that prevents someone from wearing a mask. I totally and completely [I]want [/I]things to play out exactly as you describe them. That being said, I do not have the faith in the legal system that you do. The basic problem, IMNHO, is that once someone says "I have a medical condition" I think the law is on their side that they don't have to provide information with what that condition is. Specifically addressing your reasons: 1. I don't know that the laws in question require disclosure. The one in PA (where I live) was a governor's decree, definitely doesn't include provisions for it. People are required to disclose things like abuse and gun shot wounds, but there is no language in the mask mandates about disclosure of conditions. I don't know what laws would apply on a boat in NY. 2. 4. 5. and 7. To the best of my knowledge these are exceptions that deal with a health care provider turning over information to law enforcement. In this case, there was no care provider being questioned, so they wouldn't be applicable. Now, if the people had said "I have a condition, I'm being treated at XYZ Doctor's office for it", this would allow the cops to check with the doctor. But there's nothing requiring the people to give this information. 7. and 10. Are the ones that would really apply in this case. The problematic part is that everything I have read about this (IANAL) uses the term "imminent threat". E.g, the medical issue must be imminent threatening others. If the people who refuse to mask are asymptomatic, I don't know if they could legally be considered an imminent threat (again, my personal opinion differing from the law). Also, statements from certain high profile government officials might lend credence to the threat not being so imminent. Furthermore, in PA there are actually laws that protect you from requiring disclose your medical conditions. The cases that I know of are are probably based on ADA requirements rather than HIPAA, but I know that establishments are specifically not allowed to ask people about medical conditions with regards to service dogs or wheelchairs. Basically, an establishment cannot bar you from using medically required aids and is extremely limited in what questions they can ask about them; they can ask what service or needs you have, but are expressly barred from asking you what the underlying medical condition is. I don't know if the same laws that protect people who are using medical aids could protect people who refuse to use medical aids. At the end of the day, I'm really curious because I don't know of any case law yet that actually upholds these mask laws. In every case that I've seen locally, the real charge is for trespassing or disturbing the peace, or something similar. I really want to see a case about mask laws make it through the legal system to see how it plays out. [/QUOTE]
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