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<blockquote data-quote="NotAYakk" data-source="post: 8167270" data-attributes="member: 72555"><p>Yes, deciding to get your kids vaccinated using pure rationality is insanely harder than solving Fermat's Last Theorem using pure rationality.</p><p></p><p>We just <em>don't do it</em> when deciding to get your kids vaccinated or not. We use heuristics (including beliefs) and habits, and we are influenced to change those based on arguments and information. Those who believe themselves rational take pride in their ability to be able to rationalize their choices, and often in listening to rationally-framed arguments and information. So they are sometimes ore amenable to those kinds of arguments and information.</p><p></p><p></p><p>If you hold that the only positions that can be trusted are those grounded in purely rational arguments, then nothing can be trusted.</p><p></p><p>That position is an artifact of believing that you are able to express, understand and evaluate purely rational arguments about reality, and only those arguments can be trusted.</p><p></p><p>And yes, my position is <em>rationalized</em>. You aren't seeing a proof that I'm right. You are seeing a rationalization for my position. This rationalization may be persuasive to you. And rational arguments back? I often find them persuastive as well, <strong>even if I don't believe I made decisions rationally</strong>.</p><p></p><p>I think that believing I make decisions rationally doesn't match observations, it doesn't match observations I have of other people, and from what little I understand of how people think, it doesn't match either. I also find that people having pride that "they are rational" is not that uncommon, and the belief (to me) seems to explain behavior better than them actually being rational.</p><p></p><p>I make rational arguments to myself all the time, and I find rational arguments persuasive (even ones I use on myself!), and sometimes I attempt (with limited success) to change my heuristics and habits based on them. This <strong>may</strong> result in some of my actions moving in a way that is somehow objectively rational, but I don't have that much faith in it.</p><p></p><p>But if someone gives me a rational argument why I should, I dunno, torture and kill a bunch of babies? <strong>I don't care</strong> if the logic of the argument is unassailable. I might listen in order to determine if my guess is that they are plausibly going to follow through, and then attempt to prevent it.</p><p></p><p>And far less extreme rational arguments are going to run into similar "tripwire" heuristics.</p><p></p><p>Someone who believes they are a rational person might run into cognitive dissonance that "but the logic was unassailable that I should do the horrible thing". I think that is a trap.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="NotAYakk, post: 8167270, member: 72555"] Yes, deciding to get your kids vaccinated using pure rationality is insanely harder than solving Fermat's Last Theorem using pure rationality. We just [I]don't do it[/I] when deciding to get your kids vaccinated or not. We use heuristics (including beliefs) and habits, and we are influenced to change those based on arguments and information. Those who believe themselves rational take pride in their ability to be able to rationalize their choices, and often in listening to rationally-framed arguments and information. So they are sometimes ore amenable to those kinds of arguments and information. If you hold that the only positions that can be trusted are those grounded in purely rational arguments, then nothing can be trusted. That position is an artifact of believing that you are able to express, understand and evaluate purely rational arguments about reality, and only those arguments can be trusted. And yes, my position is [I]rationalized[/I]. You aren't seeing a proof that I'm right. You are seeing a rationalization for my position. This rationalization may be persuasive to you. And rational arguments back? I often find them persuastive as well, [B]even if I don't believe I made decisions rationally[/B]. I think that believing I make decisions rationally doesn't match observations, it doesn't match observations I have of other people, and from what little I understand of how people think, it doesn't match either. I also find that people having pride that "they are rational" is not that uncommon, and the belief (to me) seems to explain behavior better than them actually being rational. I make rational arguments to myself all the time, and I find rational arguments persuasive (even ones I use on myself!), and sometimes I attempt (with limited success) to change my heuristics and habits based on them. This [B]may[/B] result in some of my actions moving in a way that is somehow objectively rational, but I don't have that much faith in it. But if someone gives me a rational argument why I should, I dunno, torture and kill a bunch of babies? [B]I don't care[/B] if the logic of the argument is unassailable. I might listen in order to determine if my guess is that they are plausibly going to follow through, and then attempt to prevent it. And far less extreme rational arguments are going to run into similar "tripwire" heuristics. Someone who believes they are a rational person might run into cognitive dissonance that "but the logic was unassailable that I should do the horrible thing". I think that is a trap. [/QUOTE]
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