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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ashrym" data-source="post: 9415848" data-attributes="member: 6750235">Yes.  Other players have to go through the resolution process because they don't have the feat.  More on this below.If the character is approaching the merchant as another crafter/merchant then a discount as a reseller makes sense.  As long as the merchant is not dipping to deeply into their profit margin then extra discounted sales can increase cash flow in this way.It's normal to give resellers a discount to move more product.I just wanted to point out that [USER=6779196]@Charlaquin[/USER] is clearly capable of making a decision like that but the option to ban or change a rule doesn't invalidate their opinion as to why they would do so in the first place.  We can still discuss the rules and why we might want to change them.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> I disagree with this statement.  The DDB article changed the wording but I think the UA version is likely to be correct.  But where I disagree is in that the feature doesn't require the character to negotiate.The UA version stated the discount was "You are adept at crafting things and bargaining with merchants..."This is what leads to the purchasing discount.  The fact that a roll is not required is irrelevant.  Rolling is what players do to resolve mechanics and has nothing to do with what the character is doing to create that action.  Other players might need to make a persuasion check to get a discount but the feat automatically succeeds in that check with no roll required.Circumstances that don't require a roll is very much a part of the DM action resolution process.  Either it's a given or it's impossible remove the roll and this feature makes the result a given.  I don't see this as any different from any other roll that might be a given.But anyone else can make a check to persuade the shop keeper to give them a deal on the shovel.   Anyone else is capable of achieving a similar effect.This isn't an assumption.  The feat states specifically that the character is adept at bargaining.At this point the action might have switched to impossible from the DM's perspective.   But why?  Do you have failing shops on the verge of collapse to the point they cannot afford a discount as the norm in your campaigns?  Or is the typical shop successful in areas where they can sell good to adventurers?Either way, a discount on shovels still doesn't mean there are any shovels in the shop to buy.  The DM can make scenarios like you suggested as exceptions to the rule at times.The shopkeeper who cannot afford a discount doesn't seem like an issue.  They seem like a specific choice by the DM for a specific reason and therefore become a plot hook.  If the shop is in trouble then that's a potential adventure or side quest for the character who gains that discount after completion.  It's okay to make special cases.So does persuade, intimidate, or deception.  Performance can alter moods and change outcomes of those checks.  Heck, even making a perception check against a hidden opponent who notices will change their behaviour.  If my character walks out into the street and throws a rock at an NPC minding their own business that can change their behaviour.  I would argue that rolling a die is irrelevant to a character's influence on NPC's through the actions of that character.  Those actions will have repercussions regardless of being automatic or not.  This this case the bargaining power that comes with the feat seems to have a positive repercussion in the UA version.Hope my perspective gives some food for thought.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></blockquote>

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