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Message: <blockquote data-quote="HammerMan" data-source="post: 8522790" data-attributes="member: 84112">alll of this is a total misrepresentation of what I have siad, at no point have I tried a 'gotcha' and there is nothing childish about trying to find common ground. I know written text doesn't convay feelings. I know you don't have my calm voice, only what you bring to the discussion. Please try to reread what I have said assuming I am just trying to talk to you in a calm and fun manner about a game.it depends. a new monster or a new subclass or a new feat are all new options that (normally) don't make new editions. rewriting the rules on race and monsters at least pushes toward a new edition.except the part where they have rebuilt 2 major parts of the game already with signs that they are at least rebuiulding 1 more... again is it a new edition, is it a .5 edition is it errata... is it somewhere between all three?  this is something that can be discussed. Is it 'not in any way shape or form any one of them' is just shutting down the conversation. wizards of HP in 2e, and spell slots with 'different options' (aka variant spells) the only parts that need to be reworked are non weapon prof (that really don't since they are rolling for success or failure anyway) AC/tohit that you can just reverse AC (8=12 0=20) simple enough (heck I would argue adding a chart to a 2e character is less obnoxious then most house/varriant rules in that edition) and saving throws... but that is the only one that would require any work (and through the editions saving throws are the biggest difference) I know this becuse I did it earlier  in 5eI had a concept like Galactus (not world eater, but survivor of a previus version of the universe) show up. It was pretty much a 15th level 2e wizard. he had like no HP compaired and his spells were all 100% taken from 2e.  The PCs didn't notice until I said "ping, thats one off my stone skin" like I used to in 2eagain, like my example above I CAN make the changes you suggest work... but that doesn't mean we just assume all editions are just minor tweeks to each other. I notice you kept it all as PCs that are diffrent races, no PC has a variant. I also notice you didn't mention the main thrust of the thread... understanding how monsters and PC interact. lets make a hypathetical player. Albert.  Albert has been watching in the last two games he has played as NPCs have counterspelled lots of PC spells, and even one where the other player who was a wizard took and used counterspell. Albert looks at the subclass that when you counterspell something you get a small boon (if I have to I will look it up but off top of my head I think it is warmage even thought I feel abjurer would make more sense). He has built in his mind how cool it would be.Albert goes to his local gaming store and sees two ads for games, both starting at 3rd level one tuesday nights one thursday nights. Albert does not have tons of free time but he can arrange for 1 free night per week most of the time. Albert looks and both have the same basic rules "PHB races, any publish subclass no artificers please no power gaming and we like to RP, defualt array starting equipment"so he draws up his character as a 1st level fighter 2nd level wizard (warmage) with the soldier background and as a mountain dwarf but swapping the +2 to str for +2 Int. now we split Albert into 2 Albert A and Albert BAlbert A joins tuesday and Albert B joins thursday... but unknown to him tuesday is useing the basic 5e monster rules and thursday is not only useing the new ones, but isof thebelife that (and many of these threads are) you can not counterspell the new attack spell features. Now both play very similar until 6th level (when both albert A and B hit 5th level wizard and get counterspell)in my experence jumping from 3rd to 6th level takes 10-15 games... we are going to go with 14 since RP in general gets less xp and both said they are RP heavy. so now Albert A and Albert B are super jazzed. They can't wait to try out counter spell and both run into a spell caster... but A uses counter spell (and based on level and roll works or doesn't) and B runs into one that has it built into the stat line... and as such is not counterspellable. this CHANGES the entire nature of this game and concept.  no I literally am not. did you read the part about getting the defualt dwarf/elf traits?it gets more confused the more varriation you add... and race is already 1/3 of the PCs build (Class and Race being 1/3 each and feat/background/skill making up the last 1/3)again adding isn't changing. this isn't adding it is changing. variants of every monster, variants of so far most (but we assume by 6/5.5/anniversary edition will be all)... once you have changed every monster and every race (and again we KNOW they are at least considering class) what is that if not approching a new edition?this isn't format. there are full fledged changing. this isn't "we moved saves from under attributes to under attack/damage" this is we reformulated what is and isn't a spell</blockquote>

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