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Message: <blockquote data-quote="dkyle" data-source="post: 5907710" data-attributes="member: 70707">I think there's basically two groups that prefer gridless combat:The indie-RPG, narrative-focused RPG players, who would rather consider the narrative implications of combat, rather than the details, and are comfortable with an abstract world from which things can be instantiated via player narrative control.  That's what the article focuses on.Which, I agree, is a little off base, because when it comes to 5E, it's the old-school DnD players that are at issue.  And I think, for the most part, they do want detailed, non-abstract combat, and want a concrete world, not one which players have metagame narrative control over.  It's just that old-school D&D players are very comfortable with relying on the DM to arbitrate and decide on the fly.  Moreso than players that favor the grid, I think.But the description of why he likes grids, and why they make the game more immersive for him, is completely in line with my point of view.  It's like he read my mind and wrote want I've trying to say...I would say that DM fiat is a perfectly legitimate part of roleplaying.  To me, DM fiat is not part of the game.  A game operates on mechanics, and DM fiat is a lack of mechanics.  Basically, I want important things to be determined by the outcome of a game that represents the world, not by a DM's whims.  It feels more real and immersive to me that way.Yeah, my group has done stuff like that quite a bit, in other systems.  I think it works fine in systems written with concrete units in mind, but not much that truly depends on exact positioning, like early editions of D&D.  But I don't think 4E would work very well that way, at least not the way I've played it.  There's still be need for adjudication practically every round.Maps and references that describe the environment, or maps and references that are also marked and updated during combat to track positioning and movement?For the former, I don't think the article assumes those away.  If it's just DM notes, everything still applies.For the latter, the combat isn't strictly TotM any more, and starts resembling grid-based combat more.</blockquote>

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