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Message: <blockquote data-quote="GM Dave" data-source="post: 5822943" data-attributes="member: 6687992">There are a number of issues with fighters and their 'history' in DnD; especially from a mechanical design consideration.1>  Before deciding on the number of attacks in a round, we should decide on how long a combat round will be.  Will 5e be using the 6s combat round, the 1 min combat round, somewhere in between like a 15 or 20s combat round, or something totally different?The length of the combat round will determine how closely actions are tied to results.In 2e and earlier, the multiple attacks and the level of attacks against 1 hit die were part of attacking during a full minute of time.  Two or three 'good' opportunities in a minute was considered appropriate for a Hero (which would be pathetic compared to a 3e archer which could put out 5-6 arrows every 6s for around 50-60 arrows a minute with a composite longbow ~ Hawk the Slayer would approve ;> ).2>  Deciding what an 'attack' in DnD means.Does an 'attack' mean every swing of the weapon or does an attack mean the combination of attacks, feints, parries, counter-attacks, searching for an opening that is the typical part of fighting?Watch some fighting, sparring, Ultimate Warrior weapon demonstrations, and see how fast a person can swing things like a dagger verses a larger weapon.  Still see how even a sling stone can crack a skull and realize it really doesn't matter if you get hit with a long sword or a mace in that the impact is almost always 'bad' for the receiver.  Humans are fragile and we don't take much to kill.Also watch how the demonstrators in Ultimate Warrior are huffing and puffing after their 'blitz' melee tests.3>  Dnd has suffered from a lack of 'options' in combat.  2e and earlier had very few options but the sword swing and the charge.  Anything else was 'negotiated' between the GM and the player.  A GM that liked cool ideas like a player being in a bar and asking for a chandelier rope to swing from was 'green lighted' and rewarded.  A GM that did not want to have such things made the idea painful and discouraged it by having several actions to get the rope located, reach the rope, have a half dozen die rolls to succeed, and generally make any attempt aimed to fail.3e added some codified maneuvers to the combat sequence like Trip and Bull Rush with feats to make it easier to do these things.  It gave fighters more to do that was codified in the rules but it also limited players to tending to think what was on their character sheet or in the rules.  Stunts that were not in the rules were generally forgotten (I missed my table flips in bar brawls).4e further codified things into very strict 'options' that were supported with rules and things that were not supported.  The reason being it is easier to design a balanced rule for a fighter to do something that has specific limitations instead of an open ended situation like grabbing a cart to use as a weapon to push over a group of kobolds.You need some sort of rules or guides to do things off the character sheet.  Champions or Hero System had a good list of combat options.It is also important to have things that encourage people to do something other than move close and hit or you will have a static combat developing.4>  This brings us to the mechanical side of multiple attacks; layering.An extra attack or even five extra attacks with a long sword, even if directed at one target is not a problem.  A 10th level wizard in 3e was doing 10d6 with fireball and they had plenty of those by that point through personal spells, scrolls, and wands to fire.The trouble is what else you get to do with that attack.It has been mentioned that every attack got to add in the bonus for damage to each attack.  What has not been mentioned were all the other things people put on to each attack through various feats.It was quite possible to have improved trip which 'doubled' your attacks as you got a 'free' hit on every person you knocked down.  Add in some whirlwind and a weapon with reach and you could be the walking quizinart of tripping doom.  Mix in the Bloody path or Dervish prestige and you took your attacks and walked through groups sending them flying and striking any that fell.When you talk of multiple attack then you need to think of what gets to be 'added' on to each attack in the combo build.5>  Penalizing the defense of the person taking the extra attacks.One thing that I like with games like L5R or Champions is that people using aggressive tactics are taking a reduced on their defenses.If you go aggressive then you are spending less time protecting yourself.</blockquote>

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