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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Mercule" data-source="post: 5824102" data-attributes="member: 5100">Good catch. I also don't mind the idea of the "simple" mage being an extension class, with the PHB being simple = fighter, complex = wizard.I guess I've always viewed things like the paladin, cavalier, even ranger as "complex" fighters. I don't know that we need to invent a new catch-all class for complex fighter types, so much as recognize what niches the other fighter-like classes fill:- Fighter = basic combat ability, much as one would expect from a non-officer soldier or mercenary.- Paladin = a warrior, first and foremost, but one with a few extra tricks from piety.- Cavalier = Fits the mold of the courtly warrior. Focus on expertise with knightly weapons and some social abilities, but weak without the tools of a noble. Good with the rituals of honorable combat.- Swashbuckler = Generally viewed as a light-weight warrior, but really more of a tactical, improvising warrior focused on being very good with light, adaptable weapons and in using terrain to his advantage.- Kensai = master of one weapon or style to the neglect of others. Could be rolled into the core fighter more easily than the others (maybe).- Barbarian = natural fighter that lives by "the best defense is a strong offense". High output, high hit points, lousy armor. Not specialized in any weapons.- Ranger = The wilderness, archery equivalent to the swashbuckler. Potentially more geared toward strategic dominance than tactical, as well. Often defenders of the civilized world from certain, specific threats.YMMV on the list or definitions, but the point remains that combat is so varied that making the fighter more complex and adding options above being good at sticking the pointy end into the other fellow usually brings along some baggage about what sort of options you want, which can lead to another class. Maybe a kit-like mechanic applied to a base fighter is the best way to solve that. Maybe that's only relevant in certain cases (e.g. cavalier and swashbuckler, but not ranger, paladin, and barbarian). The basic concept of a fighter really is pretty darn basic, though.</blockquote>

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