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Message: <blockquote data-quote="discosoc" data-source="post: 7088309" data-attributes="member: 6801554">I've tried explaining my opinion more here and there (and just above), but one thing I guess I haven't mentioned is that I'm pretty much a full-time DM.  My complaints aren't that I want to be all powerful right off the bat, or that I don't want to "work for my abilities" or something.  My complaints are more along the lines of criticism for the way classes are designed (hence the thread title).  Specifically, there's a quarter of class levels that simply don't get played by many people and aren't really even supported with any official AP's or anything.  Even in rare groups that get to 20 without starting at higher than 1, or without simply speedrunning to 20, how many of those groups continue playing at level 20 long enough to really get to use those capstones for very long?  Two sessions?  Five sessions?  I have no idea, but I do know that between the difficulty of designing high level (tier 4) adventures and the lack of official options there can't be many.It just seems like a waste to have things like capstones and interesting stuff come online so late in the game, even if you do eventually get them.  But I do think that if you read my OP and came away with the impression that I claimed the high level abilities are fundamental or required for gameplay, then you totally failed to understand the point of the post.  They're optional, but their existence is mostly wasted as a result of the way the game is played by most people (and supported by official products).</blockquote>

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