Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Million Dollar TTRPG Crowdfunders
Most Anticipated Tabletop RPGs Of The Year
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
D&D Classes without Subclasses?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="jmartkdr2" data-source="post: 9860353" data-attributes="member: 7017304"><p>One by one:</p><p></p><p>Artificers: you move all the subclass stuff to infusions. Works well enough for most but the armor infusion is either OP or level-locked to 10th or higher</p><p></p><p>Barbarian: you're all totem barbarians now, but with more totem options. </p><p></p><p>Bard: need more feats to cover the gaps</p><p></p><p>Cleric: this one's tough - you can have the individual god covered by things like spell selection but you need to either massively expand the spell list or grant ways to get non-cleric spells for theme. Also many more channel divinity options. </p><p></p><p>Druid: change wildshape to "channel nature" and allow it to summon spirits in addition to being used for wildshape</p><p></p><p>Fighter: this is either easy (make everyone a battlemaster and create maneuvers to fill all the gaps) or very, very hard (if you don't make everyone a battlemaster)</p><p></p><p>Monk: a little tougher - you need to add a Special Moves feature for customization</p><p></p><p>Paladin: honestly which oath barely matters mechanically already</p><p></p><p>Ranger: this class already severely lacks customization points, but having lots of "knacks" to choose from and gaining more as you level can help</p><p> </p><p>Rogue: definitely need "skill feats" for this one.</p><p></p><p>Sorcerer: Yeah I don't think you can do this without subclasses.</p><p></p><p>Warlock: only if you restrict the class to spooky casters. Celestial warlocks are out. </p><p></p><p>Wizard: oh right they have subclasses. I rarely notice during actual play.</p><p></p><p>The recurring theme is you need to give each class a new customization point - if you want a genuinely different structure I suggest creating "class feats" for each class. I wouldn't have them all on the same progression a la PF2 but vary depending on what the class needs. With finesse you can replace subclasses form most classes, mostly. </p><p>Rogue:</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="jmartkdr2, post: 9860353, member: 7017304"] One by one: Artificers: you move all the subclass stuff to infusions. Works well enough for most but the armor infusion is either OP or level-locked to 10th or higher Barbarian: you're all totem barbarians now, but with more totem options. Bard: need more feats to cover the gaps Cleric: this one's tough - you can have the individual god covered by things like spell selection but you need to either massively expand the spell list or grant ways to get non-cleric spells for theme. Also many more channel divinity options. Druid: change wildshape to "channel nature" and allow it to summon spirits in addition to being used for wildshape Fighter: this is either easy (make everyone a battlemaster and create maneuvers to fill all the gaps) or very, very hard (if you don't make everyone a battlemaster) Monk: a little tougher - you need to add a Special Moves feature for customization Paladin: honestly which oath barely matters mechanically already Ranger: this class already severely lacks customization points, but having lots of "knacks" to choose from and gaining more as you level can help Rogue: definitely need "skill feats" for this one. Sorcerer: Yeah I don't think you can do this without subclasses. Warlock: only if you restrict the class to spooky casters. Celestial warlocks are out. Wizard: oh right they have subclasses. I rarely notice during actual play. The recurring theme is you need to give each class a new customization point - if you want a genuinely different structure I suggest creating "class feats" for each class. I wouldn't have them all on the same progression a la PF2 but vary depending on what the class needs. With finesse you can replace subclasses form most classes, mostly. Rogue: [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
D&D Classes without Subclasses?
Top