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D&D Combat is fictionless
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<blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 8400504" data-attributes="member: 87792"><p>I've three points of disagreement, one of which is petty:</p><ol> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Just because it doesn't have the fiction you (or I or anyone else) wants it doesn't make it fictionless - just not the fiction you want</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">The OODA loop is a thing - as are movements and phrases (I don't have the technical vocabulary) in fight scene choreography and if D&D was trying for realism hit points wouldn't be a thing</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">4e was an exception because it imagined one style of combat extremely well.</li> </ol><p>1 is, I accept petty. D&D combat isn't so much fictionless as awkward fiction. A big part of the problem is the mix of (a) a lot of hit points so combat takes a long time and (b) only the last hp really mattering.</p><p></p><p>2 on the other hand - depending on what type of combat you have there are near stop-motion phrases where the combatants break to reassess before the next exchange. It's not so common in one on one brawls which end up generally as rolling around on the floor. But it definitely is in cinematic combat, and in sport combat - and the only reason it isn't so common in real armed fights is because they tend to be fast and brutal as in war you don't have a pool of near-consequence-free hit points. Sure there's more flow in systems using real bodies - but if we look at a perfectly good fight scene from The Witcher there are pretty clear breaks in it.</p><p></p><p>[MEDIA=youtube]vE_hczfIS8Y[/MEDIA]</p><p></p><p>3 is one of the many reasons I miss 4e. "Slow combat" was in part because there were a lot of opportunity and interrupt actions which had the effect of showing that everyone competent was continually moving in response to each other. And the other part is that the story of 4e combat frequently involves using the environment almost as much as any Jackie Chan film as well as teamwork and rescuing each other.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Neonchameleon, post: 8400504, member: 87792"] I've three points of disagreement, one of which is petty: [LIST=1] [*]Just because it doesn't have the fiction you (or I or anyone else) wants it doesn't make it fictionless - just not the fiction you want [*]The OODA loop is a thing - as are movements and phrases (I don't have the technical vocabulary) in fight scene choreography and if D&D was trying for realism hit points wouldn't be a thing [*]4e was an exception because it imagined one style of combat extremely well. [/LIST] 1 is, I accept petty. D&D combat isn't so much fictionless as awkward fiction. A big part of the problem is the mix of (a) a lot of hit points so combat takes a long time and (b) only the last hp really mattering. 2 on the other hand - depending on what type of combat you have there are near stop-motion phrases where the combatants break to reassess before the next exchange. It's not so common in one on one brawls which end up generally as rolling around on the floor. But it definitely is in cinematic combat, and in sport combat - and the only reason it isn't so common in real armed fights is because they tend to be fast and brutal as in war you don't have a pool of near-consequence-free hit points. Sure there's more flow in systems using real bodies - but if we look at a perfectly good fight scene from The Witcher there are pretty clear breaks in it. [MEDIA=youtube]vE_hczfIS8Y[/MEDIA] 3 is one of the many reasons I miss 4e. "Slow combat" was in part because there were a lot of opportunity and interrupt actions which had the effect of showing that everyone competent was continually moving in response to each other. And the other part is that the story of 4e combat frequently involves using the environment almost as much as any Jackie Chan film as well as teamwork and rescuing each other. [/QUOTE]
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