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<blockquote data-quote="Lyxen" data-source="post: 8418980" data-attributes="member: 7032025"><p>But it has, since the detect magic skill <u>mechanically</u> detects whether something is magical or not, and it goes right back to the power source.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The skill use is quite specific actually: </p><p>Identify Magical Effect: Standard action.</p><p>✦ DC: DC 20 + one-half the effect’s level, if any. You must be able to see or otherwise detect the effect.</p><p>✦ Not a Power or a Ritual: The magical effect must be neither from a magic item nor the product of a power or a ritual.</p><p>✦ Success: You learn the effect’s name, <strong>power source</strong>, and keywords, if any of those apply.</p><p>✦ Failure: You can’t try to identify the effect again until after an extended rest.</p><p></p><p>I agree that monsters are not directly linked to a power source (probably because that way there are some monsters that you can use with different power sources depending on the occasion), however, the keywords for a monster can be an indication, for example Undead marks it as clearly unnatural (so not primal) and obviously not martial. After that, as you say, you could probably create arcane Deathlock Wights and divine Deathlock Wights, you have the option. But the mechanics of the game (the skill use above) would force you to choose.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>You certainly played a very different 4e games than I did, but I guarantee that you bought the same one, since my quotations are straight off the player's handbook. </p><p></p><p>Don't get me wrong, it's great that you tailored the game to do what you wanted, but for us, despite decades of experience with Moldway and all the editions since then never managed to do the above.</p><p></p><p>Let's take for example the most glaring point for me, the fighter jumping from off a flying tower and pinning a dragon's wings, can you please describe in 4e terms (actions, movement, powers, creatures, grids, etc.) how he did that ? Because it's the example (fighting across the back of dragons assaulting an astral plane fortress, full 3d fighting with relative gravity) that I always take of things that I could easily do in BECMI/AD&D, that I can do again very easily in 5e, which was hard to do in 3e and totally impossible in 4e using its combat system.</p><p></p><p>Of couse, we could do as you do and ignore parts of the system (like actually being dying when you are in the dying state) when they didn't suit us, but frankly, we were just out of the unbalanced mess that was 3e, we really appreciated the efforts made by 4e to provide a balanced and fully consistent system, and we did not want to start ignoring parts, because when we did it clearly became obvious that it led to consequences in other areas no longer working (which is the drawback of having a nicely integrated mechanical system like 4e).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Lyxen, post: 8418980, member: 7032025"] But it has, since the detect magic skill [U]mechanically[/U] detects whether something is magical or not, and it goes right back to the power source. The skill use is quite specific actually: Identify Magical Effect: Standard action. ✦ DC: DC 20 + one-half the effect’s level, if any. You must be able to see or otherwise detect the effect. ✦ Not a Power or a Ritual: The magical effect must be neither from a magic item nor the product of a power or a ritual. ✦ Success: You learn the effect’s name, [B]power source[/B], and keywords, if any of those apply. ✦ Failure: You can’t try to identify the effect again until after an extended rest. I agree that monsters are not directly linked to a power source (probably because that way there are some monsters that you can use with different power sources depending on the occasion), however, the keywords for a monster can be an indication, for example Undead marks it as clearly unnatural (so not primal) and obviously not martial. After that, as you say, you could probably create arcane Deathlock Wights and divine Deathlock Wights, you have the option. But the mechanics of the game (the skill use above) would force you to choose. You certainly played a very different 4e games than I did, but I guarantee that you bought the same one, since my quotations are straight off the player's handbook. Don't get me wrong, it's great that you tailored the game to do what you wanted, but for us, despite decades of experience with Moldway and all the editions since then never managed to do the above. Let's take for example the most glaring point for me, the fighter jumping from off a flying tower and pinning a dragon's wings, can you please describe in 4e terms (actions, movement, powers, creatures, grids, etc.) how he did that ? Because it's the example (fighting across the back of dragons assaulting an astral plane fortress, full 3d fighting with relative gravity) that I always take of things that I could easily do in BECMI/AD&D, that I can do again very easily in 5e, which was hard to do in 3e and totally impossible in 4e using its combat system. Of couse, we could do as you do and ignore parts of the system (like actually being dying when you are in the dying state) when they didn't suit us, but frankly, we were just out of the unbalanced mess that was 3e, we really appreciated the efforts made by 4e to provide a balanced and fully consistent system, and we did not want to start ignoring parts, because when we did it clearly became obvious that it led to consequences in other areas no longer working (which is the drawback of having a nicely integrated mechanical system like 4e). [/QUOTE]
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