NOW LIVE! Today's the day you meet your new best friend. You don’t have to leave Wolfy behind... In 'Pets & Sidekicks' your companions level up with you!

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="dave2008" data-source="post: 8268454" data-attributes="member: 83242">[USER=22779]@Hussar[/USER] , sorry to get back to you so late.  First I want to clarify that I acknowledge that 5e hasn't worked for you. Clearly we have different play styles, desires, or tolerances, such that what doesn't work for you, does work for me and my group.  That is to be expected. So, thank you for your response, it is all 100% correct for you and I will not try to dispute any of it.  Instead, I will present a modified version of my low magic house rules that I think may get closer to your needs:<a href="https://www.enworld.org/threads/d-d-compared-to-bespoke-genre-ttrpgs.679910/post-8268265" target="_blank">Low Magic D&D:</a>Race: No changes. You could ban or modify some races that have magical abilities if that fits your theme better.Class: There are 4 non-magical classes in the PHB: barbarian, fighter, monk, and rogue. However, I personally restrict to just fighter and rouge so that is what I will discuss. With these two classes we get 13 archetypes that are non-magical. In my experience these can significantly change how the classes are played, but yours may vary.Fighter:<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Banneret</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Battlemaster</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Brute (UA) - I include this one because we have used it and liked it quite a lot</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Cavalier</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Champion</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Monster Hunter (UA) - I included this  one because I feel a variant will be showing up in a supplement soon</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Samurai</li> </ul>Rouge:<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Assassin</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Inquisitive</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Mastermind</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Scout</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Swashbuckler</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Thief</li> </ul>Optional Class Features (TCoE):Fighter<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Fighting Style Options (5 new styles)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Martial Versatility (4th level fighter feature)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Maneuver Options (7 new maneuvers)</li> </ul>Rogue<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Steady Aim (3rd level rogue feature)</li> </ul>3PP Classes: There are many good non-magical classes from other creators. I have seen warlords, spell less rangers (we use the Rogue Scout for that), scholars, etc.  It all depends on what works for you. The 13 subclasses of Fighter and Rogue work for my group, they may not for you.  We find with feats and backgrounds and multiclassing there is more than enough variety and options to make the characters we want.Backgrounds: All 53+ backgrounds are available and provide additional variety to characters.Feats: Required (you cannot take an ASI).  This is the big one for me. The fighter gets 7 feats and the rouge gets 6. If you are required to take a feat instead of an ASI you will have many more options, tactical and otherwise, and much more variety in your characters even with a limited number of classes.  With 60+ feats (not included racial feats) there is a lot variety. This is also the only way (except racial abilities) to get magic.Optional: give each character a bonus feat at level 1 (like in MOoT)List of Feats (includes some UA feats because the provide more options for martial characters and we use them and like them):[spoiler]ActorAlchemist (UA)AlertAthleteBlade Mastery (UA)Burglar (UA)ChargerChefCrossbow ExpertCrusherDefensive DuelistDual WielderDungeon DelverDurableElemental Adept (optional)Everybody's Friend (UA – optional for all races)Fell Handed (UA)Fighting InitiateFlail Mastery (UA)GrapplerGreat Weapon MasterHealerHeavily ArmoredHeavy Armor MasterHuman Determination (UA – optional for all races)Inspiring LeaderKeen MindLightly ArmoredLinguistLuckyMage SlayerMagic Initiate - this is the only way to cast non-ritual spells. (optional, limit cantrips to non-damage cantrips; option 2: limit cantrips to once per short or long rest)Martial AdeptMaster of Disguise (UA)Medium Armor MasterMobileModerately ArmoredMounted CombatantObservantPiercerPoisonerPolearm MasterProdigy (Optional – allow to any race)ResilientRitual Caster – the only method to cast spells over 1st level or cantripsSavage AttackerSentinelSharpshooterShield MasterSkilledSkill ExpertSkulkerSlasherSpear Mastery (UA)Spell SniperTavern BrawlerToughWar CasterWeapon Master[/spoiler]Equipment: All non-magical equipment is allowed. No magic items or 1 per party / tier.Magic: A player can only gain the ability to cast magic by taking the Magic Initiate and/or Ritual Caster feats. Magic can then be improved with other feats (as described in the feats). This limits general spellcasting to:<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">One first level spell cast 1/ long rest and...</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Cantrips (Optional rule 1: limit cantrip cantrip casting to 1/ short rest; Optional Rule 2: replace cantrips with additional first level spells; Option rule 3: limit cantrips to non-damaging spells; chose options as needed to fit your idea of low magic), or...</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Rituals.</li> </ul>Additionally, the only method to cast a spell over 1st level is with rituals.IMO, this gives you a variety of character options (thousands of potential combinations), while providing the limited magic casting you requested (1 per encounter), unless everyone jumps on the magic casting feats (but even then it should run out pretty quickly). Now will this make 5e fun for you? I imagine not, but I think it gets pretty close to the low magic game you described with very only a few rules changes. Now if you can stomach using only 2 classes (and 13 subclasses) and you will not look to 3PP, then I can't help you.  It works for me, it doesn't have to work for you too.EDIT: And whether or not this creates the low magic game you want, it does create a low magic game (and good one IMO) and it was achieved with only one or two changes to the core rules:<ol> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">No ASIs, feats only</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Optional revision to how the Magic Initiate feat works</li> </ol>That is pretty simple IMO.</blockquote>

Verification