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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ovinomancer" data-source="post: 8268616" data-attributes="member: 16814">The crux of the disagreement in this thread seems to be twofold.  First, and most contentious, if the personal identification with 5e such that criticisms of 5e are offensive.  This is something that cannot be overcome in discussion because it's now personal.  I once geld this point of view and was offended by comments that D&D might not be the best system, ir could be easily modified to do anything another system could do, I came around to realizing this was my problem and had nothing at all to do with the systems involved.  5e is a good game, but it's got a core focus that is very much totally baked in and that is combat solves things.  You have to do quite a lot to step on this, and can't do it for long because characters are all built on this core.  If you want to do anything longterm where combat doesn't solve anything, 5e is probably not a good choice.  Short term you can step on it.This leads into the second point, which is the difference between a codified set of mechanics and an ad hoc one.  This is a complete matter of preference.  Some people will thrive on ad hoc solutions (essentially GM says) and view them as even more effective that codified rules.  For them, 5e is easily moddable because it has such a large area of play that requires GMs to ad hoc things.  This means it's easier because you don't have to step around rules, you just do your thing.  What many of the people that prefer this approach fail to see is that it xan be deeply dissatisfying to others, and not always for the reasons they assume.  I dislike it because it reduces my ability to judge the risks of asn action, which means it's actually harder for ne to inhabit my character -- I feel more as if I'm playing the GM rather than the situation.  It also requires a lot of simpatico between players and with the GM.  Many if the issues I see complained about here on ENW comes down to GM ad hocs at a tabke with issues with simpatico.Mostly this thread is a collection of bad takes.  Recommeding another game should never be offensive.  At best, it's not immediately useful.  This is quickly solved.  The real desire I pick up is that some posters feel they shouldn't ever have to even hear about other games unless specifically asked for.  It's why the original complaint morphed from a general ask for help receiving answers suggesting ither systems to the much more dubious claim that tge ask is for running a heist session in an existing 5e game receiving the same responses.  I call shenanigans.</blockquote>

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