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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ruin Explorer" data-source="post: 8269322" data-attributes="member: 18">Yeah, though to be fair D&D is also not a top choice if that's the primary motivator. If I was actually trying to focus on pre-planned fantasy heists I think I'd be leaning towards something more like Savage Worlds, because D&D's approach to skill checks suuuuuuuuuuuucks. Or even Worlds Without Number, at least that has a vastly superior skill system to D&D 5E, despite being OSR.Definitely agree. But I think there's a bit of an issue in both directions here, where people are being a bit excessively "It can't do that!", but equally others are saying stuff like "I ran a Cthulhu-themed game in D&D and it think it worked!" as if that means D&D works well for that, which isn't really true (hence my low bar comment).Yup. BitD is one of the most surprising RPGs for my group, in a bad way. It sounded like an RPG precisely designed for us, based on the setting/description, because we loved fantasy heists, both in games and books (and now you have it on TV too lol with Shadow and Bone, which takes a very BitD approach!), but then all the rules were basically "Nooooooooooooooo, don't actually plan it! Don't actually prep! Just use the rules to establish the fiction as you go along!" and that was like, so alien to us. It's like a heist game for the people who like the idea of heists, but not the nitty-gritty. I guess we'd want the Torchbearer of fantasy heist games lol.I feel like from your posts you're in the "understands 5E has things it is better and worse at" group. It's perfectly fine to understand that and still use D&D - in fact I think people who do are the ones who will incorporate rules best.See, to me, I think what's different now, in 2021, to say, 2005 or 1995, is that most modern TT RPGs "work".That did not used to be true. Like, it used to be, there was a good chance, if you played an RPG, that it was a goddamn mess. That it had like big rules issues that easily came out in actual play. That still happens - just look at recent editions of Shadowrun lol - but it's a lot more rare. Almost all PtbA games "just work" for example. As do a lot of others.So I don't really feel like 5E has a special advantage there except maybe in it's "weight class". D&D is either at the top of rules-medium, or the bottom of rules-heavy in weight of rules. And in that area, games which don't "work" are a lot more common. Indeed in rules-heavy games, not working very well is pretty common.As for "easy to sit down and prep", I don't agree, again, except relative to weight class. I've played countless different RPGs over the years, DM'd dozens. 5E is not among those I'd describe as "easy to prep". 4E was drastically easier to prep (not going to argue this, I feel like I could demonstrate it as objective fact due to the way mechanics worked in 4E, but it'd be a boring few posts). 3E was harder to prep (but that's why 3E caused the rise of Paizo and their APs and so on). 2E was slightly easier or about the same. Something like Shadowrun, which is deep into "rules heavy" is basically harder to prep, often a lot harder. But majority of games out there now? I'd say they were a lot easier than 5E. Especially if you're looking at adding in further rules for genre simulation. I accept that you might not find that, but I think experience and a particular approach to prep may be the factors here (esp. if you didn't find 4E easier to prep).</blockquote>

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