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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Thomas Shey" data-source="post: 8269416" data-attributes="member: 7026617">[Much snippage]I think how much that's true depends on how much you think medium matters.  You can talk about supers as a genre, but the truth is, it varies considerably from medium to medium, and how much of that one tolerates (or expects) is going to color your views.  Champions is an old basic design at this point, and does not always do as good a job of representing the genre in some areas as it could, certainly, but I'd suggest two things here: 1. You're a bit underestimating how many genre assumptions are baked into the system.  Even when not building characters specifically to deal with it, it is notable that it is a system that is much, much easier to knock people out than kill them, for example, and that's very much a supers (especially Silver/Bronze Age) supers assumption, to the degree it stands out pretty starkly in other genres the system is used for, even with optional rules to reduce it;  and2. The degree to which people expect a RPG experience to strongly map to its more native media forms varies considerably; this is likely why you have a number of supers games that come later which don't match up as well in your view, because they were designed assuming some native genre elements were not wanted by the players.  In fact, I'd argue the ongoing evolution of games in the genre is a process of iterating toward what people perceive as the market's desires here (along with some games that stake out particular levels of this and just decide that's where they're going to stand and the hell with it, but I think a game like M&M shows an attempt to push certain things closer to the native genre in some areas while consciously avoiding doing so in others).Or, put another way, while Champions is clearly not what everyone wants here, neither was MSH, and that was just as true about people with strong histories with the genre as not.  It turns much more on how they expect a genre to be adapted to the medium of RPGs.</blockquote>

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