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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ruin Explorer" data-source="post: 8270209" data-attributes="member: 18">I think at this point you just profoundly don't want to understand the concept, because your objection here makes zero sense in the context of my post, which explained the point! At length! And you're acting like I didn't so either you didn't read it (which would be weird), or just don't want to engage with it, which is kind of funny and a bit sad. It's one thing to say "what works for you doesn't work for me" or something, but when I explained the point, and you're still saying "what's the point?!" and not even referencing what I said? That's on you mate. Feel free to re-read my earlier post to learn the point.It's okay though, there are people who fundamentally don't get Torchbearer, for example, just cannot for the life of them figure out how that could possibly be fun. I pity them personally, but YMMV.Thinking genre emulation is the only "sensible" way is just plain narrow-minded and deeply ignorant of the history of TT RPGs, though (the whole dungeon-crawling and sandbox approaches stand in hard opposition to genre emulation). So it's weird to back up that bad take (which wasn't your take, I note, but [USER=7027139]@loverdrive[/USER]'s take). I'd also really argue that the original Locke Lamora is not actually a good match for BitD, the way it plays out. That was one of the major problems my Locke Lamora-loving group had with it. With LL there's a mixture of pre-planning and understanding quite elaborate stuff (which BitD does NOT want to happen), and the flashbacks are used in a very different way to BitD and Ocean's 11. It makes sense that the BitD author hadn't read LL, because the subject matter is close but the approach is significantly different.EDIT- Hell the existence and popularity of D&D really calls into question the whole "genre emulation" thing, because D&D only "emulates" the D&D genre. Indeed most of the "big" RPGs aren't genre-emulation ones, they're ones which are vaguely genre-themed (often really, really vaguely, and mashing up multiple genres), but ones that are doing their own thing (including the WoD, which isn't really genre-emulating, though VtM is the closest to it, it's still kind of defining its own genre).PtbA games tend somewhat to be genre-emulating (though not exclusively, and often obliquely, or emulate a genre of their own), and I've always liked genre-emulating RPGs, all the way back to Feng Shui and so on, but the idea that they're the only way or primary way or something is just fanciful nonsense, especially given we're posting on a D&D board!Yup. As I pointed out earlier, you basically have two kinds of heist movie. The fanciful/elegant kind (which is often quite enjoyable) where everything goes pretty perfectly because a magical mastermind came up with the plan, and usually the only things that go wrong are the result of personally-motivated double-cross, triple-crosses and so on (though there is often a section where the heroes have to improvise because some part of the plan is stuck, usually because some individual isn't where they're expected to be), and the grittier kind where typically the planning is more shown, and there's a lot less of this "ahaha I knew this would happen so!" deal (sometimes none at all), and things often get a lot messier (though not necessarily immediately, and still often because of a personality clash). BitD tries to chart a weird middle path, doesn't really engage with the personality-clash stuff (unless I'm really misremembering it), perhaps for the obvious reason that it might not work well in an RPG, and really, really doesn't want you to do any actual planning at all (very different from the elaborate plans in stuff like LL).</blockquote>

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