NOW LIVE! Today's the day you meet your new best friend. You don’t have to leave Wolfy behind... In 'Pets & Sidekicks' your companions level up with you!

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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ruin Explorer" data-source="post: 8272411" data-attributes="member: 18">That's dave. I don't think using the page 242 of the DMG rules is actually particularly beneficial, so broadly agree with you, though people acting like they don't exist is unhelpful.However, have you actually read them? The way your post is phrased it suggests to me that you haven't. I agree in very broad terms with your general point that using them doesn't necessarily improve the situation, however, I think your suggestion that they actually further cloud the waters and actually make things worse is borne out of ignorance of what is being suggested on page 242.I'm with you on this sentence until you get to "hides it more from the players". I don't see that as justifiable on the basis of what is actually being suggested on page 242. I can see why you might guess that though.I'd also suggest that I'm not really buying the apparent underlying notion that D&D is peculiar in the players having limited tools to assert fiction and the DM deciding what happens on success/failure. I would say that the vast majority of successful RPGs on the market are like D&D in this.If we look at DriveThru's top sellers for example (ignoring supplements/modules):1. WWN - like D&D (does have more heist-friendly rules though due to multi-dice skills and Execution attacks).2. Dune - Totally honestly I have no clue. It's 2d20 system, and it sounds like it's the same as D&D, but I could be wrong.3. Hard-Wired Island - Like D&D only it's clearer that the DM has options, which by your logic is worse than D&D - specifically failure = GM picks between outright failure, success-at-a-cost, or a bargain, which seems to be exactly what you're condemning. Yet this is regarded as a narrative-friendly, player-friendly modern system.4. SWN  - See WWN.5. Cyberpunk Red  - Like D&D.6. Blades in the Dark - As discussed at terminal length!We could go on.</blockquote>

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