Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
D&D compared to Bespoke Genre TTRPGs
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 8272852" data-attributes="member: 82106"><p>No, but what we're saying is that a better system nails down the risk/reward/cost/benefit/context better than a basic unstructured 'check when and where the GM decides' does. When you simply add more options onto how the check itself works, that doesn't nail anything down! Imagine two scenarios:</p><p></p><p>1) GM uses basic core skill/ability checks as-written - The player cannot know when or if a check will be invoked, this is totally up to the GM. There's no 'context' (IE a check doesn't establish some increment of progress through some mechanism, like a track or SC, so it COULD be effectively ignored/insignificant). Once a check is called for by the GM the player simply rolls the dice. In a practical sense they can ask questions, but the fiction leading to the check is already set, and even if the GM is willing to revisit that (IE allow you to employ a consumable) you don't know if that is warranted or not, since the DC is totally up to the DM and hasn't been announced (again, you can ask, but nothing says you will either get an answer or be able to amend your actions based on whatever it is). Finally a binary pass/fail result is generated. There's no specific rules structure around what this implies. Does the fiction progress with the task now impossible? Or does the state remain as before? What determines which of the two is the case? If these rules are in play, then the player can expend Inspiration before rolling the check, but again this is a blind choice.</p><p></p><p>2) GM uses degrees of success - Literally nothing changes... The only difference is post-roll the GM may declare a partial failure/success with complications. The player doesn't have any way of knowing what these possibilities are, because again there is still no context. </p><p></p><p>This is the problem with 5e's entire check-based system, and none of the optional rules really address it competently. I think Inspiration and Hero Points were intended to do so, but they are not well-written and thus largely miss the mark. Even if you use them, you have not gained much without a broader structure to govern the whole process.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="AbdulAlhazred, post: 8272852, member: 82106"] No, but what we're saying is that a better system nails down the risk/reward/cost/benefit/context better than a basic unstructured 'check when and where the GM decides' does. When you simply add more options onto how the check itself works, that doesn't nail anything down! Imagine two scenarios: 1) GM uses basic core skill/ability checks as-written - The player cannot know when or if a check will be invoked, this is totally up to the GM. There's no 'context' (IE a check doesn't establish some increment of progress through some mechanism, like a track or SC, so it COULD be effectively ignored/insignificant). Once a check is called for by the GM the player simply rolls the dice. In a practical sense they can ask questions, but the fiction leading to the check is already set, and even if the GM is willing to revisit that (IE allow you to employ a consumable) you don't know if that is warranted or not, since the DC is totally up to the DM and hasn't been announced (again, you can ask, but nothing says you will either get an answer or be able to amend your actions based on whatever it is). Finally a binary pass/fail result is generated. There's no specific rules structure around what this implies. Does the fiction progress with the task now impossible? Or does the state remain as before? What determines which of the two is the case? If these rules are in play, then the player can expend Inspiration before rolling the check, but again this is a blind choice. 2) GM uses degrees of success - Literally nothing changes... The only difference is post-roll the GM may declare a partial failure/success with complications. The player doesn't have any way of knowing what these possibilities are, because again there is still no context. This is the problem with 5e's entire check-based system, and none of the optional rules really address it competently. I think Inspiration and Hero Points were intended to do so, but they are not well-written and thus largely miss the mark. Even if you use them, you have not gained much without a broader structure to govern the whole process. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
D&D compared to Bespoke Genre TTRPGs
Top