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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 8274551" data-attributes="member: 22779">I still have zero idea where you are getting this from.  "Ought"?  Nope.  It shouldn't work this way.  It does because there is like, ZERO advice suggesting that it shouldn't.  But, I'll get back to that in a second.Bree Yark was introduced into D&D, what, forty years ago?  Look at the modules of the era.  You will see, time and again, language similar to, "If the PC's are seen, the monsters attack, while one at the back raises the alarm".  This is hardly unusual.Heck, I just took a look at Ghosts of Saltmarsh - The Final Enemy.  Now, here is the stated goal of the module:So, right up front we have an infiltration scenario.  The advice continues:So, what should happen if the PC's are detected?  Well, the module does offer some advice:The primary (and presumed) entrance is the above water gates.  ((Note, there are other entrances, we'l talk about those later)).  Here's the relevant advice.Note, absolutely no advice on how to adjudicate a failure.  However, if the PC's do open the door, then:Guess what, the entire main level gets alerted by that big metal gong and, really, there is zero chance of you stopping it unless you can somehow kill 9 REDACTED in a single round before any of them can raise the alarm.But, wait, there are other entrances for enterprising PC's.  Now, one of them is the main gates, so, that's a non-starter right off the bat.  But the other one is more inviting.  It's an abandoned tunnel.  Great.  First encounter is 3 REDACTED who immediately attack if they become aware of the PC's - no chance of talking to them or bluffing them or bribing them.  And 90 feet away through a double door are 45 REDACTED.  Granted, there's no chance of the mass hearing due to an ongoing arena fight they are watching, but, that's a move and a double move away for our 3 immediately attacking guards.So, all in all the odds of success of infiltration are very low.  Now, the writers of the adventure knew that, so, they have spaced out encounters far enough that it's entirely plausible that the party will simply murder their way in, do what they're supposed to do, and then murder their way out.But, again, a single mistake by the party, which is frankly inevitable, results in the entire place being alerted.  Fail that Persuasion check above?  What is supposed to happen?  There's no advice, but, REDACTED are quite intelligent, and very much on a war footing, so, it's not implausible that they would raise an alarm or open the door to look outside while someone is ready to raise the alarm.  Go in through the underwater entrances?  You're not wounded at this point, so the frenzy sidebar forcing REDACTED to attack  won't apply and it will become very apparent very quickly that the PC'S are dangerous.  REDACTED are militant, organized and on a war footing, getting ready to attack Saltmarsh.  It's not like they're "lazy bullies" of guards (note, how offensive is that stereotype?  Sorry, but as someone who has served in uniform and stood guard duty more than a few times, being told that all guards are lazy or bullies is unbelievably disrespectful - talk about something that should be apologized for).</blockquote>

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