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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 8275599" data-attributes="member: 22779">And, I largely agree.  Sure, I'll totally buy that.But, again, that's a bit separated from my point.  Sure, it's a framework, but, when your framework says, X results in Y, then, well, there isn't a whole lot more that's needed is there?  It's not like they frame it (heh) as just a suggestion.  It's pretty plainly stated, and repeated, again and again.  Which leads to my point that the notion of failure being catastrophic is pretty well documented.  It occurs in many, many modules.  Far more often than any sort of graduated response does.  And, it doesn't really matter if we're talking about stealth or social interactions or finding traps.  Failure is very often, by what the module is telling you, catastrophic. If you fail X, then Y happens and Y is almost always irreversible.  Fail that Disarm check by 5 (3e rules here) and the trap goes off.  There isn't a whole lot of wiggle room here.  You aren't expected to tell the player the DC of a trap.  And, again, many people are REALLY bad at calculating odds.  I remember one player who, through trial and error realized that the only way his character would disarm a trap was on something like an 18 or better, but, if he failed, the ((IIRC)) lightning bolt that shot out would only affect him on a 1 (his character had evasion or some such thing).  So, he kept trying, kept failing and setting off the trap.  And, he rolled a 1 on his save before he rolled a successful disarm and the damage of the trap outright killed his character.Really funny and sticks in my mind, but, a blindingly stupid way to kill your character.</blockquote>

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