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<blockquote data-quote="Aethelstan" data-source="post: 1332745" data-attributes="member: 14304">The standard D&amp;D XP system works something like this.DM: &quot;OK, last week while exploring the Crypt of Gorm Doomhammer, the party set off three traps, blundered into two ambushes and concocted a boneheaded battle plan that nearly got everyone slaughtered...but you did manage to kill six fiendish half-dragon Trolls, three Mindflayer lycanthropes and a Beholder with five levels of Bard.&nbsp; Let's see how many xp you earned.&nbsp; (insert complex calculation formula here).&nbsp; 5163 xp each. (DM consults chart) *sigh* Everyone leveled.&quot;&nbsp; Players: &quot;Cool.&quot; &quot;leveled again?! Awesome.&quot; &quot;Great, now I can take a level in (insert overpowered prestige class here).&quot; &nbsp; &nbsp; Is this anyway to run a role-playing game?&nbsp; Leveling based on body counts and number-crunching?&nbsp; The standard D&amp;D xp system rewards killing, not savvy gaming or good role-playing.&nbsp; Groups can play ineptly but as long as they don't die, they reap the full xp reward.&nbsp; This encourages players to view D&amp;D as a tabletop version of Diablo (kill, kill, level…kill, kill, level...)&nbsp; In fact, the xp system punishes players who can think or talk their way out of pointless or avoidable conflicts.&nbsp; &nbsp; The whole notion leveling by killing is a Gygaxian relic of D&amp;D's war gaming origins.&nbsp; In the early days, D&amp;D was essentially a miniature combat game placed in a new context: the &quot;dungeon.&quot;&nbsp; Before role-playing and campaign worlds and all the rest, D&amp;D was essentially a game about killing monsters.&nbsp; Yet here we are, a generation later, and 3.5 remains saddled with a level advancement system which is based almost entirely on killing monsters.&nbsp; D&amp;D has evolved into a game far more complex and compelling than its war gaming origins but still DMs dutifully tally up experience points for kills.&nbsp; D&amp;D needs a leveling system which actually encourages players to explore the dimensions of the game beyond mindless hack and slash.&nbsp; Players who are clever and creative, whether in combat or role-playing, deserve leveling system which rewards a higher standard of gameplay.&nbsp; As an alternative, I would like to suggest a subjective, merit-based system which I believe addresses a number of the aforementioned issues. &nbsp; &nbsp; In a given campaign, PCs level up every x number of sessions (x being whatever seems best for your group).&nbsp; Each session, the DM should judge how the players dealt with the situations they encountered, giving emphasis to thoughtful planning, teamwork and tactics, bright ideas and good role-playing.&nbsp; If players do an average job, they progress at the standard rate.&nbsp; If the players do very well, reduce the number of sessions needed to level by one. Truly extraordinary gaming (rare indeed) reduces by two.&nbsp; However, if the level of play during a session is particularly dreadful, the group does not advance closer to leveling.&nbsp; &nbsp; This system rewards what a good RPG should: gaming savvy, intelligence and, of course, role-playing.&nbsp; Players can no longer equate killing to leveling and quickly learn that thinking pays.&nbsp; As an added benefit, this system eliminates the tedious and ultimately counterproductive task of tallying xp.&nbsp; &nbsp; If you don’t care for my particular system, at least consider coming up with a version of your own which de-emphasizes killing as a means of character advancement.&nbsp; I strongly believe the xp system has impose a kind of tyranny over D&amp;D.&nbsp; To paraphrase the Army’s sales pitch, its keeps the game form “being all that it can be.”&nbsp; A new leveling system could free D&amp;D from its current “slaughter-centrism.”&nbsp; It is up to you - the loyal fans, the faithful gamers – to release Dungeons &amp; Dragons from the war-forged chains that bind it.&nbsp; Ok, I’m getting a little carried away here but I would like some feedback from these boards about the current D&amp;D leveling system and possible alternatives, the more radical the better.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Apocalyptically Yours,&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Aethelstan</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Aethelstan, post: 1332745, member: 14304"] The standard D&D XP system works something like this. DM: "OK, last week while exploring the Crypt of Gorm Doomhammer, the party set off three traps, blundered into two ambushes and concocted a boneheaded battle plan that nearly got everyone slaughtered...but you did manage to kill six fiendish half-dragon Trolls, three Mindflayer lycanthropes and a Beholder with five levels of Bard. Let's see how many xp you earned. (insert complex calculation formula here). 5163 xp each. (DM consults chart) *sigh* Everyone leveled." Players: "Cool." "leveled again?! Awesome." "Great, now I can take a level in (insert overpowered prestige class here)." Is this anyway to run a role-playing game? Leveling based on body counts and number-crunching? The standard D&D xp system rewards killing, not savvy gaming or good role-playing. Groups can play ineptly but as long as they don't die, they reap the full xp reward. This encourages players to view D&D as a tabletop version of Diablo (kill, kill, level…kill, kill, level...) In fact, the xp system punishes players who can think or talk their way out of pointless or avoidable conflicts. The whole notion leveling by killing is a Gygaxian relic of D&D's war gaming origins. In the early days, D&D was essentially a miniature combat game placed in a new context: the "dungeon." Before role-playing and campaign worlds and all the rest, D&D was essentially a game about killing monsters. Yet here we are, a generation later, and 3.5 remains saddled with a level advancement system which is based almost entirely on killing monsters. D&D has evolved into a game far more complex and compelling than its war gaming origins but still DMs dutifully tally up experience points for kills. D&D needs a leveling system which actually encourages players to explore the dimensions of the game beyond mindless hack and slash. Players who are clever and creative, whether in combat or role-playing, deserve leveling system which rewards a higher standard of gameplay. As an alternative, I would like to suggest a subjective, merit-based system which I believe addresses a number of the aforementioned issues. In a given campaign, PCs level up every x number of sessions (x being whatever seems best for your group). Each session, the DM should judge how the players dealt with the situations they encountered, giving emphasis to thoughtful planning, teamwork and tactics, bright ideas and good role-playing. If players do an average job, they progress at the standard rate. If the players do very well, reduce the number of sessions needed to level by one. Truly extraordinary gaming (rare indeed) reduces by two. However, if the level of play during a session is particularly dreadful, the group does not advance closer to leveling. This system rewards what a good RPG should: gaming savvy, intelligence and, of course, role-playing. Players can no longer equate killing to leveling and quickly learn that thinking pays. As an added benefit, this system eliminates the tedious and ultimately counterproductive task of tallying xp. If you don’t care for my particular system, at least consider coming up with a version of your own which de-emphasizes killing as a means of character advancement. I strongly believe the xp system has impose a kind of tyranny over D&D. To paraphrase the Army’s sales pitch, its keeps the game form “being all that it can be.” A new leveling system could free D&D from its current “slaughter-centrism.” It is up to you - the loyal fans, the faithful gamers – to release Dungeons & Dragons from the war-forged chains that bind it. Ok, I’m getting a little carried away here but I would like some feedback from these boards about the current D&D leveling system and possible alternatives, the more radical the better. Apocalyptically Yours, Aethelstan [/QUOTE]

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