Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
[D&D Design Discussion] Preserving the "Sweet Spot"
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Joshua Randall" data-source="post: 2993263" data-attributes="member: 7737"><p>Those are strong clues, I agree.</p><p></p><p>These however are not strong clues, to me. </p><p></p><p>For BAB to generate iterative attacks in a sensible way, it must do so on an integer that divides evenly into 20. The only choices are 2, 4, 5, and 10. I think the designers were right to go with the iteration at 5, rather than 10, because waiting to be 11th level before you get two attacks per round is not enough of a cookie for the melee classes.</p><p></p><p>Iteration at 2 would be ridiculous, and iteration at 4 is not sufficiently different from 5 to justify the extra attack per round coming into play at lower levels.</p><p></p><p>Regarding 5th level spells, they were ported over from 1e/2e, so I don't think the fact that they are 5th level is anything other than a historical artifact. Unless you would like to argue that the design of OD&D considered 5th level spells the appropriate level at which to introduce game-changing effects. Which would be an interesting argument to make, and relatively easy to verify (with Col Playdoh).</p><p></p><p>It depends upon the kind of game you want to design. If you want to design a game in which the PCs eventually become as powerful as demigods, then the PCs <strong>should</strong> be able to automatically succeed at tasks with normal-level DCs -- i.e. the PCs should eventually have so many plusses (from skill ranks, ability scores, and magic) that the d20 roll <strong>is</strong> rendered irrelevant.</p><p></p><p>If you want to design a game in which the PCs are consistently faced with skill challenges that they have roughly a 50% chance to overcome, then the DCs need to scale up to keep the d20 roll meaningful.</p><p></p><p>Then that is bad adventure design, not bad game design.</p><p></p><p>Again, it depends upon what kind of game you're designing.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Joshua Randall, post: 2993263, member: 7737"] Those are strong clues, I agree. These however are not strong clues, to me. For BAB to generate iterative attacks in a sensible way, it must do so on an integer that divides evenly into 20. The only choices are 2, 4, 5, and 10. I think the designers were right to go with the iteration at 5, rather than 10, because waiting to be 11th level before you get two attacks per round is not enough of a cookie for the melee classes. Iteration at 2 would be ridiculous, and iteration at 4 is not sufficiently different from 5 to justify the extra attack per round coming into play at lower levels. Regarding 5th level spells, they were ported over from 1e/2e, so I don't think the fact that they are 5th level is anything other than a historical artifact. Unless you would like to argue that the design of OD&D considered 5th level spells the appropriate level at which to introduce game-changing effects. Which would be an interesting argument to make, and relatively easy to verify (with Col Playdoh). It depends upon the kind of game you want to design. If you want to design a game in which the PCs eventually become as powerful as demigods, then the PCs [b]should[/b] be able to automatically succeed at tasks with normal-level DCs -- i.e. the PCs should eventually have so many plusses (from skill ranks, ability scores, and magic) that the d20 roll [b]is[/b] rendered irrelevant. If you want to design a game in which the PCs are consistently faced with skill challenges that they have roughly a 50% chance to overcome, then the DCs need to scale up to keep the d20 roll meaningful. Then that is bad adventure design, not bad game design. Again, it depends upon what kind of game you're designing. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
[D&D Design Discussion] Preserving the "Sweet Spot"
Top