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Message: <blockquote data-quote="green slime" data-source="post: 2993663" data-attributes="member: 1325">It's semi-mythical, because we can't pinpoint where it occurs, and we can't agree to it either. You point to 5th level spells being the apogee for you and your campaigns. For me, this occurs somewhere around 7th-8th level spells (I strongly dislike mordenkainen's nuclear disjunction). Why, for instance is a DC30 trap assumed to be some kind of representation for something other than the prerequiste for having a rogue in the party? Without the rogue, the trap is still negotiable, it is just going to consume party resources that are more difficult to replace. This fact is the same whether the trap DC is 10, 30, or 50. Because of the trapfinding class ability restriction on a large case (in the game) of traps, no sane non-rogue character will place skill points in the skill.I'd like to see a prolonged "sweet-spot", and I'd have to say, of all the ideas presented in this thread, the most conducive to this (IMO), is the now "old" idea of restricting characters to spellcasting levels every other level. Which would mean that, for me, this would extend the game's "playability and enjoyability" into the 30's. That in itself might require some forethought, planning, and care regarding Epic level feats  and abilities.</blockquote>