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Message: <blockquote data-quote="jmucchiello" data-source="post: 2995762" data-attributes="member: 813">Fine. I give up. Since you didn't address the fact that your example of getting around the locked door didn't require a skill check, you obviously aren't really reading what I'm writing. At no point during the "speak 'friend' and enter" encounter is any of the fellowship's players rolling a die to pick a lock. Thus this encounter is not a lockpicking exercise. It is a puzzle. Puzzles don't come down to skill rolls. Puzzles scale from 1st to 101st level. Your example is not an example of lockpicking in a legendary story. It is an example of a puzzle in a legendary story.Regardless, if we can ignore the specific example of Moria, my assertion was that as the players become more and more heroic, the actions they perform change. Thus while a locked door is a dramatic obstacle for 1st level schlubs. A locked door is out of genre as a dramatic obstacle for 20th level uber-heroes. Knock is still a 2nd level spell, isn't it? By the RAW locked doors should not be a serious obstacle for parties with access to scrolls of 2nd level spells! Knock is still within the sweetspot, isn't it? A 4500 gp wand of knock that will open a whole lot of locked doors, chests, and the gates of moria is within reach of a party at 8th level with a little money pooling. Poof, there goes open locks as a useful skill. And that's without stone shape, dim door, passwall, teleport and I'm sure others. How many spells are you going to tweak to preserve the sweetspot?Are there other 5th level spells that need work? Passwall? Permanancy? Sending? Spell Resistance? Telepathic bond? 6th level: Analyze Dweomer? Antimagic Field? Find the Path? True Seeing? Wind Walk?Becoming nauseated after teleport would just ruin my fun. I have a character who can cast two quickened spells in a round (28th level remember) and the look on everyone's face the first time I teleported in and out and still took an action inside was priceless. And I still consider that the sweetspot for fun games. The disconnect here is vast and so I'll bow out the thread if I make my next Will save. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></blockquote>

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