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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Stalker0" data-source="post: 2996500" data-attributes="member: 5889">Wow, I actually didn't intend to threadjack...my point was that one way to stay in the sweet spot is with players actions. At low level, fighting an orc is a challenge. At 6th level, still in the sweet spot, its not. Opening a simple lock is a challenge at 1st level, not at 5th. Now once you get to 15-16th level, there aren't any locks that are a challenge, unless something weird is going on. However, the players themselves can make it a challenge, and an exciting one, but using their imagination to do the job more heroically. In this way, you don't need higher and higher dcs to challenge the players, some of the job is on their shoulders as well.To get fully back on topic, I repeat what others have said, its high level magic that's the "problem." A high level fighter, no matter how strong, no matter how many attack he gets, is still a fighter. He just does more damage, maybe can attack more enemies, but he's still just a fighter. However a wizard can stop time, make wishes, summon unspeakable horrors, raise the dead, etc.My group is now 11th level, and it really doesn't feel high level because we have no wizards or clerics. So while we are all pretty powerful, the type of game we are playing hasn't changed. The game only changes with spells like teleport, commune, raise the dead, etc as others have mentioned. Take these kinds of spells out, and the gameplay remains relatively the same.Another "problem" as I see it, is that 3rd edition is a slave to formulaic progressions. A barb gets +1 bab every level, a fighter gets a feat every other level, etc. The problem with this is it makes classes hard to tweak to adjust for level differences. A high level barb needs a ton of magic items to compete against high level magic because all his class is given him is some more rages and some DR. If there were high level feats or class abilities that could actually give fighters magical abilities like energy resistances for example, they wouldn't need as much magic to do their jobs. This would allow the sweet spot ideal a little longer I believe, fighter types would have magic items but not be so very dependent on them like they are at high levels.</blockquote>

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