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[D&D Design Discussion] Preserving the "Sweet Spot"
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<blockquote data-quote="Victim" data-source="post: 3000721" data-attributes="member: 78"><p>No. I'd say that the cure X wounds is weaker than heal is too good. One reason for their weakness is that clerics can swap out of the Cure line, while they need to prep Heals. So it's okay if they aren't as good as regular spells. Also, the cure spells are designed to scale smoothly, instead of scaling for usefulness.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>You could make the short teleport 4th level with some hefty restrictions or long casting time. Or it could be 5th level without the inaccuracy and maybe some other side benefits - if you could port more allies or take willing creatures with you at range, it'd still be useful. But yeah, without some extra benefit, it would suck as a 5th level spell. The thing is, even without teleport around with its 900 miles, I think a 9 mile teleport without some extras would suck as a 5th level spell. 5th level spells can grant flight for extended periods, kill with a touch, turn people into animals - pretty classic stuff. Saving a few hours hiking isn't usually going to be worth the spell. Having a smooth mathematical progression isn't necessarily good if the spells it produces aren't useful enough to warrant their level.</p><p></p><p>There is a progression: 9th level spells have perfect transplanar travel, 7th level spells have perfect same plane travel and clumsy interplanar travel, and 5th level spells have clumsy world travel. The problem isn't that there's no progression. It's that the progression implies a change in scope which not everyone finds desireable. At high levels planar stuff is supposed to be where the action is; mundane stuff is less important. That's why most of the high level monsters are outsiders and such. </p><p></p><p>That change in scope is part of the reason the sweet spot ends. Making normal distance still significant while still making travel spells worthwhile should still be feasible though. If teleporting only works between preset locations, then PCs can't go wherever, whenever. If it's riskier, PCs will likely only use it when under considerable time pressure. You could scale the teleport by size of the campaign so the effect is less relative to the distances involved in the campaign. It could take longer for people to reform after teleporting so it's less viable</p><p>as an assassination move.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The idea that spells have certain restrictions hardly seems entirely arbitrary to me. You need a body to res someone? It's not like Destruction is the only means of eliminating a body. Spells hardly ever do "more." Fireball is 1d6/level, so is the Delayed Blast Fireball. If a level 20 caster wants to do 20d6 damage to one guy, he can just use Chain Lightning as a 6th level spell. The higher level spells are just adding side benefits; DBF can Delay itself and does full damage to targets in an area for 1 level higher. Horrid Wilting is 2 levels higher and still does the same damage, but it offers the ability to miss allies, non energy damage, and some tiny bonus against water creatures. Similarly, the ressurection line improves in the side benefits.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Victim, post: 3000721, member: 78"] No. I'd say that the cure X wounds is weaker than heal is too good. One reason for their weakness is that clerics can swap out of the Cure line, while they need to prep Heals. So it's okay if they aren't as good as regular spells. Also, the cure spells are designed to scale smoothly, instead of scaling for usefulness. You could make the short teleport 4th level with some hefty restrictions or long casting time. Or it could be 5th level without the inaccuracy and maybe some other side benefits - if you could port more allies or take willing creatures with you at range, it'd still be useful. But yeah, without some extra benefit, it would suck as a 5th level spell. The thing is, even without teleport around with its 900 miles, I think a 9 mile teleport without some extras would suck as a 5th level spell. 5th level spells can grant flight for extended periods, kill with a touch, turn people into animals - pretty classic stuff. Saving a few hours hiking isn't usually going to be worth the spell. Having a smooth mathematical progression isn't necessarily good if the spells it produces aren't useful enough to warrant their level. There is a progression: 9th level spells have perfect transplanar travel, 7th level spells have perfect same plane travel and clumsy interplanar travel, and 5th level spells have clumsy world travel. The problem isn't that there's no progression. It's that the progression implies a change in scope which not everyone finds desireable. At high levels planar stuff is supposed to be where the action is; mundane stuff is less important. That's why most of the high level monsters are outsiders and such. That change in scope is part of the reason the sweet spot ends. Making normal distance still significant while still making travel spells worthwhile should still be feasible though. If teleporting only works between preset locations, then PCs can't go wherever, whenever. If it's riskier, PCs will likely only use it when under considerable time pressure. You could scale the teleport by size of the campaign so the effect is less relative to the distances involved in the campaign. It could take longer for people to reform after teleporting so it's less viable as an assassination move. The idea that spells have certain restrictions hardly seems entirely arbitrary to me. You need a body to res someone? It's not like Destruction is the only means of eliminating a body. Spells hardly ever do "more." Fireball is 1d6/level, so is the Delayed Blast Fireball. If a level 20 caster wants to do 20d6 damage to one guy, he can just use Chain Lightning as a 6th level spell. The higher level spells are just adding side benefits; DBF can Delay itself and does full damage to targets in an area for 1 level higher. Horrid Wilting is 2 levels higher and still does the same damage, but it offers the ability to miss allies, non energy damage, and some tiny bonus against water creatures. Similarly, the ressurection line improves in the side benefits. [/QUOTE]
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