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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Orius" data-source="post: 5225872" data-attributes="member: 8863">This.  This whole debate has always been in the game, it was firmly in place during 1e, and probably goes back to the three booklets.  Part of it goes back to the game's roots in wargaming, read about some of Gary's early games and there was an element of him and his players trying to beat each other and "win" the game.  I think it's a stage that a lot of players get into when they first play the game, though some move out of it.  Those who stay with the mentality become the Knights of the Dinner Table.  That's fun to watch, not quite as fun to play.The elements of it have changed a bit.  In the old days it was stuff like "no saving throw" or letting 1st level parties run into really old red dragons or liches, or Demogorgon or something.  These days, it sounds like DMs pick  opponents or challenges deliberately tailored to counter the party's strengths and weaknesses.  Overall it's the same thing, I'd say old school was more general due to larger parties and a wider level range, while today things get more specific as the game is more tightly structured.  The details matter little though, because it's all about the DM and players trying to beat each other.And it's not just D&D either, it's in a lot of RPGs.  Just check this link:<a href="http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/KillerGameMaster" target="_blank">Killer Game Master - Television Tropes & Idioms</a>In particular the entire Tabletop RPG section, <s>the first</s> all the Penny Arcade links, Al Bruno's rant, etc.  Not that it's all bad, part of 1e's philosophy seemed to be to challenge the players, and thus encouraged some degree of metagaming. Today metagaming is frowned upon, if you're playing someone with a single digit Int, you're discouraged from playing him like a tactical genius.  This newer school of though goes back to the 2e days, and occasionally it seems to be less a matter of encouraging role-playing and verisimiltude and more a matter of a poor DMs encouraging the party to play with idiot balls so the DM doesn't have to come up with anything creative.Even past the metagaming, sometimes a dash of killer DMing can liven up a campaign.  But like any spice, too much will leave an overpowering and unpleasant aftertaste.Personally, I like slipping the occasional deathtraps into my games.  I usually set things up so the PCs can escape/survive/whatever, I just never bother to tell the players how....  <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/devil.png"  class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":devil:" title="Devil    :devil:" data-shortname=":devil:" />Remember, you're not a successful DM until you've killed your first PC.</blockquote>

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