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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Vaalingrade" data-source="post: 8406618" data-attributes="member: 82524">Regardless how I feel about these (like Great Wheel planes in general), I still don't think any of these need 'Evil'.Does that need 'Evil' though? Between indifferent and alien forces (aka Lovecraft ripoffs of they weren't trying to enforce alignment dichotomy) and just plain body horror, we got that covered. 1) They can still exist as threats by the gods for heretics.2) Considering how many fiends exist to steal souls or barter them, is it really so much a punishment as a general risk of existence? 3) IF you're evil enough and good at it, you get to digivolve to ultimate and rule the place. How is that a punishment? It's the purest meritocracy in the setting and a lot of people strive for that for some reason.Are we talking about cursed junk, or artifacts of jackhole gods? Because neither still need Evil. Zeus wasn't evil, but he was still a jerk and you shouldn't use any of his stuff because ti'll probably impregnate you or something. Hades was the most chill of the brothers, but you also can't raid his fridge.The World Axis Primordial managed to do this without actually being evil. The Primordials want to reset the material plane to make something better and consider the jerks living on it part of the thing being reset. Not evil, just antagonistic to the Material.Mind Flayers don't need Evil because they have a biological imperative to consume us. They don't need the slave holding and black leather wearing trappings to be antagonists.Aboleths are again cosmic horror watered down with human morality. It's a mean fish from the dawn of time trying to win back the dominion of the great x 10000 grandpappy still living in its head. What's the point of trying to put a label on it?And with them!Really? I'm sure a fair number of players will never encounter either of these and by just fine for it? They're just IP.Might as well declare displacer beasts and Umber Hulks essential too. I've only run into a displacer beast once and it was a kitten causing chaos at a bizarre. Not exactly iconic.</blockquote>

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