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<blockquote data-quote="Faolyn" data-source="post: 8407524" data-attributes="member: 6915329">I found that exact quote on Realmshelp.org. I can't help but notice you left out the second paragraph:So this very clearly shows that the orcs had been evil--or at least evil enough that the Thesk were still worried about them--but that they only stopped being evil because of the humans and gnomes of Thesk. Since detect evil in 3e (when Thesk was last detailed) could detect evil humanoids, it's likely that the Theskans would actually be able to tell.And for the umpteenth time, Eberron was specifically written to subvert alignments. Keith Baker has strongly implied that he wouldn't have used alignment if he didn't have to (he said that removing alignments wasn't &quot;an option,&quot; which to me indicates that if it had been an option, he may very well have taken it). Using Eberron to indicate that alignments can be changed is utterly ridiculous.Where are the &quot;three&quot; groups of orcs that aren't evil? You still have shown one: Thesk. And you are claiming that since other orcs went to Thesk, they must be coming from equally non-evil societies--as opposed to emigrating from evil societies to a non-evil one. Which is far more likely, since you still haven't named any other non-evil orc societies.Also, &quot;multiple nations allow orcs&quot; is not &quot;an orc nation that isn't evil.&quot; All that does is show that, in the Realms, orcs still need to be &quot;civilized&quot; by other people or they're still Chaotic Evil. Even Obould Many-Arrows is still Chaotic Evil when he should be changed to Lawful Evil at least.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Faolyn, post: 8407524, member: 6915329"] I found that exact quote on Realmshelp.org. I can't help but notice you left out the second paragraph: So this very clearly shows that the orcs [I]had been evil[/I]--or at least evil enough that the Thesk were still worried about them--but that they only stopped being evil because of the humans and gnomes of Thesk. Since [I]detect evil [/I]in 3e (when Thesk was last detailed) could detect evil humanoids, it's likely that the Theskans would actually be able to tell. And for the umpteenth time, Eberron was specifically written to subvert alignments. Keith Baker has strongly implied that he wouldn't have used alignment if he didn't have to (he said that removing alignments wasn't "an option," which to me indicates that if it [I]had [/I]been an option, he may very well have taken it). Using Eberron to indicate that alignments can be changed is utterly ridiculous. Where are the "three" groups of orcs that aren't evil? You still have shown [B]one[/B]: Thesk. And you are claiming that since other orcs went to Thesk, they must be coming from equally non-evil societies--as opposed to emigrating from evil societies to a non-evil one. Which is far more likely, since you still haven't named any other non-evil orc societies. Also, "multiple nations allow orcs" is [I]not [/I]"an orc nation that isn't evil." All that does is show that, in the Realms, orcs still need to be "civilized" by other people or they're still Chaotic Evil. Even Obould Many-Arrows is still Chaotic Evil when he [I]should [/I]be changed to [I]Lawful [/I]Evil at least. [/QUOTE]

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