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<blockquote data-quote="EzekielRaiden" data-source="post: 9653956" data-attributes="member: 6790260">I don't really see why surges are &quot;just&quot; more HP, but your BHP aren't? That is, I don't see what the gulf between the two systems is.My understanding is that &quot;Vitality&quot;-type systems, including standard D&amp;D HP, refers to the stuff you can burn up easily without suffering long-term problems. It's the &quot;luck points&quot; as opposed to &quot;meat points&quot;, to use the perhaps trite terms a lot of people use for this. Being dropped to 0 HP puts you on a timer, but you have resources that can be expended to pull you back from the brink. Those resources are &quot;Wounds&quot;, and you can't recover those swiftly or simply. 4e is somewhat different in that you can do one-way conversion of &quot;Wounds&quot; into extra &quot;Vitality&quot;, but otherwise pretty much in line with any other such system.In some ways, the standard HP and surge recovery of 4e is more lenient, but in other ways much, much less so. Your BHP can be recovered by magic--quite easily, in fact. A single casting of cure wounds, even at level 1, has a better-than-even chance of doing so (2d8+3 averages 2x4.5+3 = 12; you'd need to roll a small but noticeable amount below average); cast by a Life Cleric, it's almost guaranteed to do so (2d8+6 averages 15; you'd need to roll the lowest or second-lowest result.) If upcast, even a single level, it functionally guarantees BHP restoration (4d8+3 averages 21)--meaning a single day is enough to restore most lost BHP, if the party healer spends it doing nothing but casting heals, unless you reduce the rate of spell-slot recovery to match, at which point all you've really done is rescale the timing so the whole campaign moves at a slower pace, but the per-session timing wouldn't meaningfully differ.The one and only part that isn't there is the &quot;this literally makes something cease to function&quot;, and I just...I don't really see what value that has? Like I'm genuinely unsure why having BHP which achieve that thing is...a thing you want to do. Having 0 HP already means the function of something is in danger of ceasing. Being dead already means the function of something has stopped. I don't see what is added by having this...other track of death?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="EzekielRaiden, post: 9653956, member: 6790260"] I don't really see why surges are "just" more HP, but your BHP aren't? That is, I don't see what the gulf between the two systems is. My understanding is that "Vitality"-type systems, including standard D&D HP, refers to the stuff you can burn up easily without suffering long-term problems. It's the "luck points" as opposed to "meat points", to use the perhaps trite terms a lot of people use for this. Being dropped to 0 HP puts you on a timer, but you have resources that can be expended to pull you back from the brink. Those resources are "Wounds", and you can't recover those swiftly or simply. 4e is somewhat different in that you can do one-way conversion of "Wounds" into extra "Vitality", but otherwise pretty much in line with any other such system. In some ways, the standard HP and surge recovery of 4e is more lenient, but in other ways much, much less so. Your BHP can be recovered by magic--quite easily, in fact. A single casting of [I]cure wounds[/I], even at level 1, has a better-than-even chance of doing so (2d8+3 averages 2x4.5+3 = 12; you'd need to roll a small but noticeable amount below average); cast by a Life Cleric, it's almost guaranteed to do so (2d8+6 averages 15; you'd need to roll the lowest or second-lowest result.) If upcast, even a single level, it functionally guarantees BHP restoration (4d8+3 averages 21)--meaning a single [I]day[/I] is enough to restore most lost BHP, if the party healer spends it doing nothing but casting heals, unless you reduce the rate of spell-slot recovery to match, at which point all you've really done is rescale the timing so the whole campaign moves at a slower pace, but the per-session timing wouldn't meaningfully differ. The one and only part that isn't there is the "this literally makes something cease to function", and I just...I don't really see what value that has? Like I'm genuinely unsure why having BHP which achieve that thing is...a thing you want to do. Having 0 HP already means the function of something is [I]in danger[/I] of ceasing. Being dead already means the function of something has stopped. I don't see what is added by having this...[I]other[/I] track of death? [/QUOTE]

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