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*Pathfinder & Starfinder
D&D Family Problems (and the Impenetrability of the Game for Newbies)
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<blockquote data-quote="amerigoV" data-source="post: 6055490"><p>In an ideal world where money does not matter, sure. I have no problem with what you said. IMO, it all comes down to brand dilution and price point. 4e's worst point had to be when you had 4e, Essentials, and the Red Box all going at once. What do you buy if you are just getting into it? 4e had a real brand identity issue going there. By all accounts 4e was producing some good stuff before the end but the brand had become very confused.</p><p></p><p>For Pathfinder, I am sure the Pathfinder Beginner Box is very good (from what people have said). But you start out paying $35 list price for the beginner / basic game. If you love it, you then shell out another $50 for the "real game"? </p><p></p><p>For us hobbyists, neither of those are that big of a deal. On the branding, we will figure it out. On the price point - well, we are going to spend the money anyway.</p><p></p><p>I look at Savage Worlds (my go-to game) and I see a very tight brand identity. They have a streamlined version of the rules that you can try for free (they re-released them with an adventure, pregens, figure flats and the Test Drive rules as part of the FreeRPG day). You can buy the full rules for $10. Heck, I can go get 4 of them for the price of 3 on Amazon and basically have the rules for a new group of players for the price of a "typical" gaming book. Its a heck of a lot easier for me to get someone to give SW a good run because of the price point for THEM (not me - I bought their full hardbound book at the $30 price point). </p><p></p><p>On your third example of simple core plus complex modules -- I really think that is going to be a clusterf*ck. That would just result in Basic, Advanced Options, Maur Options!, You Cannot Live Without These Option!, and so forth. If you just wanted to run Basic, you are fine. If you want to run them all, you are fine. But I suspect the hobbyist will want to cherry pick stuff from all the books. Then we are back to 3/4e with all the tonnage.</p><p></p><p>D&D needs to find its Soul (tm) again and focus on that. D&D is part rules system and part genre. Trying to be all things to all people is just going to result in people wander off to find what they really want to play.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="amerigoV, post: 6055490"] In an ideal world where money does not matter, sure. I have no problem with what you said. IMO, it all comes down to brand dilution and price point. 4e's worst point had to be when you had 4e, Essentials, and the Red Box all going at once. What do you buy if you are just getting into it? 4e had a real brand identity issue going there. By all accounts 4e was producing some good stuff before the end but the brand had become very confused. For Pathfinder, I am sure the Pathfinder Beginner Box is very good (from what people have said). But you start out paying $35 list price for the beginner / basic game. If you love it, you then shell out another $50 for the "real game"? For us hobbyists, neither of those are that big of a deal. On the branding, we will figure it out. On the price point - well, we are going to spend the money anyway. I look at Savage Worlds (my go-to game) and I see a very tight brand identity. They have a streamlined version of the rules that you can try for free (they re-released them with an adventure, pregens, figure flats and the Test Drive rules as part of the FreeRPG day). You can buy the full rules for $10. Heck, I can go get 4 of them for the price of 3 on Amazon and basically have the rules for a new group of players for the price of a "typical" gaming book. Its a heck of a lot easier for me to get someone to give SW a good run because of the price point for THEM (not me - I bought their full hardbound book at the $30 price point). On your third example of simple core plus complex modules -- I really think that is going to be a clusterf*ck. That would just result in Basic, Advanced Options, Maur Options!, You Cannot Live Without These Option!, and so forth. If you just wanted to run Basic, you are fine. If you want to run them all, you are fine. But I suspect the hobbyist will want to cherry pick stuff from all the books. Then we are back to 3/4e with all the tonnage. D&D needs to find its Soul (tm) again and focus on that. D&D is part rules system and part genre. Trying to be all things to all people is just going to result in people wander off to find what they really want to play. [/QUOTE]
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D&D Family Problems (and the Impenetrability of the Game for Newbies)
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