D&D "Flavors..."

[Scribble]

So They just came out with Essentials, and it's D&D 4e, but also adds a new "feel" to the game...

If you play with just the original classes you get one feel, add the essentials you get another, or just the essentials you get another...

They also released Gamma World, which uses most of the same rules as 4e but changes character creation around a lot.

The upcoming Ravenloft boxed set I think will be similar to Gamma World... You will be able to port many of the parts of the game into your D&D game, but it's also designed to be stand alone...


It seems like they're sort of trying the idea of D&D "flavors."


I wonder if they could do something like D&D "Oldschool?" like redo character/race creation to be like Fighting Man, and Elf, and such, make character creation truly random and fast, and somewhat fragile... but using the basic 4e rules to play the game.

I think they could do all sorts of different styles of D&D, that we could mix and match as we saw fit.

I think it would also cut down on the need to release a new edition, since the material wouldn't just be more of the same... Would also give us less to argue about which is the one true D&D play style.


I don't know- ust something I was thinking about this morning.

 

[Stumblewyk]

It has a flavor?

I couldn't resist.

[sblock]

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[Riastlin]

Good post. I agree that it provides interesting options for "expanding" or "changing" the game without making the game obsolete for everyone. Take Gamma World for instance. Sure, it has its own rules for characters and such, but really, what's to stop a DM from running a "traditional" 4e game in Gamma Terra? Perhaps you would need to come up with some new items and feats (for vehicles and ballistic weapons for instance), or you could just run it as a post-apocalyptic world that has largely reverted to medieval science. i.e. the fancy helicopters and ray guns are largely gone -- save for the very rare occurence of finding one in working order.

Crap, now I have yet another campaign idea.

Seriously though, I think that this may be one of the true advantages to the digital age. WotC employees have made it pretty clear that they envision the game going largely digital (through e-books and such). The advantage to doing this is that it should (in theory) cut down on production costs (no paper, ink, shipping, etc.) which should make it a bit easier to release variations to the core -- especially since lower production costs mean lower retail prices which should, in theory, lead to more total sales (numbers sold, not necessarily gross income). As an example, I haven't purchased DS just yet because of the cost and the fact that I am not running a DS at this time. If the DS Campaign book were available as say a $12 e-book though, I might very well pick it up.

 

[Kelvor Ravenstar]

One way 4e could be made more 'old school' through rules variation would be to adopt some of the changes that Gamma World introduced.

For instance, in Gamma World your abilities scores are determined by your origin (or your class, effectively). GW characters gain a 18 in the ability score associated with their primary origin, and a 16 in the ability score associated with their primary origin. The rest of their scores are created by rolling 3d6 in order. To use this method in D&D the character would gain a 18 in the stat most important to their class, and then a 16 in one of their secondary scores (likely determined by their build choice). However, since Gamma World doesn't have ability score bonuses, because your origins are both race and class, these values are going to be higher than you would achieve with the regular point buy method. I'd change them to a 16 and a 14 before racial modifiers.

Ex. (GW stats in 4e without modifications)
Jimmy wants to make a halfling thief. He gets an 18 in Dex, and chooses Charisma as his secondary score for a 16. After racial modifiers this gets boosted to a 20 and an 18, really powerful. However he still has to roll his other ability scores. Jimmy might roll 8, 6, 11, and 12. This would leave him with a pitiful starting fortitude of 9, and 18 hit points. Jimmy better get ready to roll a new character if the DM targets him.
This would create characters that can still function in regular 4e encounters, but are on average weaker than their regular 4e counterparts. But, for those lucky players, they might end up with more than one 18 for their starting character.

A grittier 4e variant would be to reduce hit points. How much would depend on whether you want characters to fold up after one hit. I would probably only subtract 5 or so HP from the regular starting values. A more extreme version would be to add the Constitution Modifier rather than the entire Constitution Score to starting hit points.

I'd be interested in what an Essential style 'Elf' or 'Dwarf' class would look like. When the Heroes book comes out that has the rules for multiclassing with Essentials classes, a Mage/Slayer might come close, and a hybrid would be even better.

 

[Scribble]

A grittier 4e variant would be to reduce hit points. How much would depend on whether you want characters to fold up after one hit. I would probably only subtract 5 or so HP from the regular starting values. A more extreme version would be to add the Constitution Modifier rather than the entire Constitution Score to starting hit points.

You could also reduce when they can use healing surges. Maybe no second winds in combat either.


My larger point I thing, after muddling over it a while, is there is a ton of stuff they can do within the system that would offer people different variations on the game without having to reboot into a completely new edition of D&D, and I think because it would be a different "feel" without it being a different system altogether, it wouldn't be splitting the fanbase too much...

Like with Gamma World, I bought that, and was happy because I could port stuff back and forth between it and my normal D&D campaigns... It didn't feel like buying either Gamma World, or D&D.

 

[GRStrayton]

So They just came out with Essentials, and it's D&D 4e, but also adds a new "feel" to the game...

wonder if they could do something like D&D "Oldschool?" like redo character/race creation to be like Fighting Man, and Elf, and such, make character creation truly random and fast, and somewhat fragile... but using the basic 4e rules to play the game.

Having started playing in 1979 with Holmes Basic and then quickly moving into AD&D, I now use the 4th Edition mechanics to run an exploration-based play-style (which some might call old-school). Here's my latest post on a set of mechanics (based on the Basic D&D and the D&D Rules Cyclopedia) for playing through the three types of codified exploration sequences (Days, Turns, Combat Rounds):

Exploration Sequences « Legends & Labyrinths

My house rules also help create the exploration-based play-style. You can read those here:

Updated House Rules « Legends & Labyrinths

 

[Drammattex]

All I have to say is that the Ravenloft boxed set had such great advice on running gothic horror (and by extension storytelling in general) that it flavored everything I did from then on in any campaign. I still occasionally go back to it and read the advice therein.

Those 2e green books (Vikings, Glory of Rome, Charlemagne's Paladins, Mighty Fortress...) were all about reflavoring your D&D. I doubt they sold well, but I appreciated the effort and the concept.

 

[Scribble]

All I have to say is that the Ravenloft boxed set had such great advice on running gothic horror (and by extension storytelling in general) that it flavored everything I did from then on in any campaign. I still occasionally go back to it and read the advice therein.

Those 2e green books (Vikings, Glory of Rome, Charlemagne's Paladins, Mighty Fortress...) were all about reflavoring your D&D. I doubt they sold well, but I appreciated the effort and the concept.

Yeah they were pretty interesting. I remember as a kid "hating" stuff like that for some reason. Now I appreciate it a lot more.


Either way, I guess what I'm saying is I wonder what would happen if they gave us different versions of D&D at the same time? Each modifying aspects, but keeping the basic 4e rules (as does Gamma World) to give us a certain play style, or feel?

 

[Stumblewyk]

Either way, I guess what I'm saying is I wonder what would happen if they gave us different versions of D&D at the same time? Each modifying aspects, but keeping the basic 4e rules (as does Gamma World) to give us a certain play style, or feel?

Some of us would say "Cool." Others of us would decry WotC for making such a blatant and obvious cash grab at the expense of their beleaguered and cash-strapped consumers.

 

[Riastlin]

Some of us would say "Cool." Others of us would decry WotC for making such a blatant and obvious cash grab at the expense of their beleaguered and cash-strapped consumers.

Heh, yeah I could see that. Frankly though, I prefer it this way. I don't have to buy Gamma World (and in fact, have not), but its there if I want it. Meanwhile, the "Core" rules remain current and supported as opposed to going to a whole new edition.