Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
D&D Historian Ben Riggs says the OGL fiasco was Chris Cocks idea.
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Alzrius" data-source="post: 9412719" data-attributes="member: 8461"><p>No, I'd say you've idealized quite a bit with regards to WotC and how people will evaluate their VTT against other such products. Among other things.</p><p></p><p>In this case, I think you're drawing a very flawed parallel between whatever it is you're talking about and how WotC will curate the walled garden they're setting up.</p><p></p><p>And irrelevant. I'm not sure why you think WotC would care about the intent of what their users do. Far more likely they'll simply decide if they approve or not, and judge based on that.</p><p></p><p>Again, this isn't a question of "prevention." It's a question of them being able to unilaterally decide they don't like something, and being able to take whatever action they feel appropriate in response.</p><p></p><p>Leaving aside the obvious comment with regard to how that would fit with WotC's actions these last few years, capriciousness in moderation of a space they control is fairly ubiquitous in online spaces these days, so I see no reason why WotC would be singled out for it to the extent that you're suggesting. (And remember, the OGL debacle was because WotC was trying to assert authority over a space that they <em>didn't</em> already control.)</p><p></p><p>Except, of course, that curating content that someone else had written and which WotC can review after the fact is entirely possible. I'm not sure why you think they won't be able to look at someone's account, see what's there, and take action as they see fit.</p><p></p><p>"Track it"? Are you under the impression that this custom content will be utilized once, apparently during play, and then removed from the system? Because that seems like a rather odd idea, as opposed to writing something and uploading/posting it to their account, at which point WotC can view it at their leisure.</p><p></p><p>Or, you know, they could just look at what you've written in your account. Yeah, you might be able to get away with it under the principle of "needle in a haystack," but that's just you hoping to be overlooked, rather than some sort of technical limitation.</p><p></p><p>No, they really wouldn't. They'd be able to see if you purchased the content with said class on DDB and were using it that way or not.</p><p></p><p>So you're of the opinion that custom content on the VTT will be utilized via chat boxes? Really?</p><p></p><p>Except of course for the issues that I outlined previously, regarding additional effort for reduced payoff and the disincentivation that creates.</p><p></p><p>No, it's really not. It's the heart of my concern regarding the unintended consequences of what WotC is doing, and is a far cry from your misinterpretation of my point as "using any VTT reduces creativity."</p><p></p><p>I'll point out here that when someone uses a phrase like "seems to mean," it suggests that they're utilizing their own interpretation of what someone else said rather than what they <em>actually</em> said, inhibiting clarity of communication rather than abetting it. I'd recommend not doing that.</p><p></p><p>That said, the concern I'm proposing is simply a specific application of the medium being the message, at least in part. It doesn't necessarily need to happen for "every single person," or to the same extent, or over the same period of time. I'm just noting that the potential is there and should be recognized, if for no other reason than simple awareness of it helps to ameliorate the effect (and the discussion is quite intriguing to have).</p><p></p><p>Again, you're speaking in absolutist terms ("all," for instance) that don't match the tenor in which I've presented this, for reasons that I'm still not clear on.</p><p></p><p>That's one of the reasons (the other being that your caricature of my point was that all expressions of personal creativity would be affected). WotC isn't those other VTT companies, and they aren't WotC. Their goals, resources, <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Q_Score" target="_blank">Q Score</a>, and relationship to the game (i.e. they own it and so can modify it to their satisfaction), among many other things, are all different.</p><p></p><p>Thank you, I accept your apology.</p><p></p><p>In terms of what we're discussing, yes, I believe that this is far more salient with regards to WotC's VTT for the reasons outlined above. Though again, you've unnecessarily universalized "any possible creative action" (e.g. your mention of songwriting and drawing comics) as opposed to "imaginative play."</p><p></p><p>Hence my concern that said fundamental core will be minimized in favor of the monetization efforts which WotC's VTT is in service of.</p><p></p><p>I'm not sure what you mean by eroding the game itself, as opposed to imaginative play.</p><p></p><p>More correctly, that they're written to work in conjunction with the VTT as much as possible, which has technical limitations that incentivize what it does well and disincentivize the areas of creative play which it is ill-equipped to handle.</p><p></p><p>And sound effects and all sorts of other audiovisual attention-grabbers.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Alzrius, post: 9412719, member: 8461"] No, I'd say you've idealized quite a bit with regards to WotC and how people will evaluate their VTT against other such products. Among other things. In this case, I think you're drawing a very flawed parallel between whatever it is you're talking about and how WotC will curate the walled garden they're setting up. And irrelevant. I'm not sure why you think WotC would care about the intent of what their users do. Far more likely they'll simply decide if they approve or not, and judge based on that. Again, this isn't a question of "prevention." It's a question of them being able to unilaterally decide they don't like something, and being able to take whatever action they feel appropriate in response. Leaving aside the obvious comment with regard to how that would fit with WotC's actions these last few years, capriciousness in moderation of a space they control is fairly ubiquitous in online spaces these days, so I see no reason why WotC would be singled out for it to the extent that you're suggesting. (And remember, the OGL debacle was because WotC was trying to assert authority over a space that they [I]didn't[/I] already control.) Except, of course, that curating content that someone else had written and which WotC can review after the fact is entirely possible. I'm not sure why you think they won't be able to look at someone's account, see what's there, and take action as they see fit. "Track it"? Are you under the impression that this custom content will be utilized once, apparently during play, and then removed from the system? Because that seems like a rather odd idea, as opposed to writing something and uploading/posting it to their account, at which point WotC can view it at their leisure. Or, you know, they could just look at what you've written in your account. Yeah, you might be able to get away with it under the principle of "needle in a haystack," but that's just you hoping to be overlooked, rather than some sort of technical limitation. No, they really wouldn't. They'd be able to see if you purchased the content with said class on DDB and were using it that way or not. So you're of the opinion that custom content on the VTT will be utilized via chat boxes? Really? Except of course for the issues that I outlined previously, regarding additional effort for reduced payoff and the disincentivation that creates. No, it's really not. It's the heart of my concern regarding the unintended consequences of what WotC is doing, and is a far cry from your misinterpretation of my point as "using any VTT reduces creativity." I'll point out here that when someone uses a phrase like "seems to mean," it suggests that they're utilizing their own interpretation of what someone else said rather than what they [I]actually[/I] said, inhibiting clarity of communication rather than abetting it. I'd recommend not doing that. That said, the concern I'm proposing is simply a specific application of the medium being the message, at least in part. It doesn't necessarily need to happen for "every single person," or to the same extent, or over the same period of time. I'm just noting that the potential is there and should be recognized, if for no other reason than simple awareness of it helps to ameliorate the effect (and the discussion is quite intriguing to have). Again, you're speaking in absolutist terms ("all," for instance) that don't match the tenor in which I've presented this, for reasons that I'm still not clear on. That's one of the reasons (the other being that your caricature of my point was that all expressions of personal creativity would be affected). WotC isn't those other VTT companies, and they aren't WotC. Their goals, resources, [URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Q_Score']Q Score[/URL], and relationship to the game (i.e. they own it and so can modify it to their satisfaction), among many other things, are all different. Thank you, I accept your apology. In terms of what we're discussing, yes, I believe that this is far more salient with regards to WotC's VTT for the reasons outlined above. Though again, you've unnecessarily universalized "any possible creative action" (e.g. your mention of songwriting and drawing comics) as opposed to "imaginative play." Hence my concern that said fundamental core will be minimized in favor of the monetization efforts which WotC's VTT is in service of. I'm not sure what you mean by eroding the game itself, as opposed to imaginative play. More correctly, that they're written to work in conjunction with the VTT as much as possible, which has technical limitations that incentivize what it does well and disincentivize the areas of creative play which it is ill-equipped to handle. And sound effects and all sorts of other audiovisual attention-grabbers. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
D&D Historian Ben Riggs says the OGL fiasco was Chris Cocks idea.
Top