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D&D in the 80s, Fads, and the Satanic Panic
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<blockquote data-quote="Mannahnin" data-source="post: 8688659" data-attributes="member: 7026594"><p>They absolutely were aimed at an older audience, but they were a pretty small, hobby market. There are solid annual figures in Game Wizards comparing TSR's revenue to Avalon Hill and SPI and the general wargaming market each year, but I don't have my copy handy with me.</p><p></p><p>Greg Costikyan's famous 1996 elegy for SPI gives some numbers as well. The first commercial wargame (ignoring early outliers like HG Wells' Little Wars, I guess) he lists as 1953's <em>Tactics</em>, which sold 2000 copies and was the basis for Avalon' Hill's formation. The most successful war game of all time he lists as Avalon Hill's <em>Squad Leader</em>, with 200,000 copies sold.</p><p></p><p>[URL unfurl="true"]http://www.costik.com/spisins.html[/URL]</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I think you've got wires crossed a bit. Most war games back in the day, like Avalon Hill and SPI's bread and butter publications, were board wargames. "Hex and chit", commonly. Using printed game boards with counters for units that you moved around the board.</p><p></p><p>Wargames using miniatures were a sub-set of the larger wargaming hobby, but more expensive and space intensive. A game of Squad Leader might take hours but could be tucked away in a neat box and put back in a convenient spot on a regular book case afterward. Avalon Hill had a whole line of boxed games for years they specifically titled "Bookcase games" (<em>Outdoor Survival </em>is one of them, as is my copy of their <em>Starship Troopers</em> game), which had a standard box size meant to have a similar footprint as a large encyclopedia or dictionary volume. Very different from the common long rectangle I always remember mass-market boardgames for kids coming in when I was growing up, and is still widely used (for <em>Monopoly</em>, e.g.) by the big boardgame companies like Parker Brothers and Milton Bradley.</p><p></p><p>[ATTACH=full]253258[/ATTACH]</p><p></p><p>Side note- <em>Dungeon! </em>was originally sold in a smaller box, with a folding vinyl map. My first copy, OTOH, "<em>The New Dungeon!</em>" was the 1989 edition, which made the board bigger and fit it into the familiar larger rectangle shape/footprint of a mass-market boardgame for kids.</p><p></p><p> There's a significant incident talked about in Game Wizards about <em>Fantasy Forest</em>, TSR's 1980 attempt at a mass market boardgame for kids, and the hundreds of thousands of dollars they lost due to the singular incompetence of a Blume in-law who was then head of Purchasing, who managed to buy boxes and boards for the game which were completely incompatible in size!</p><p></p><p>A miniatures collection, on the other hand, at least takes boxes, and many of us collectors have extensive display shelves, and boxes and boxes of our unpainted stuff. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite18" alt=":ROFLMAO:" title="ROFL :ROFLMAO:" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":ROFLMAO:" /> <em>Chainmail </em>was a miniatures game, and the major wargame publishers initially saw this "fantasy gaming" fad as part of that sub-set.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Mannahnin, post: 8688659, member: 7026594"] They absolutely were aimed at an older audience, but they were a pretty small, hobby market. There are solid annual figures in Game Wizards comparing TSR's revenue to Avalon Hill and SPI and the general wargaming market each year, but I don't have my copy handy with me. Greg Costikyan's famous 1996 elegy for SPI gives some numbers as well. The first commercial wargame (ignoring early outliers like HG Wells' Little Wars, I guess) he lists as 1953's [I]Tactics[/I], which sold 2000 copies and was the basis for Avalon' Hill's formation. The most successful war game of all time he lists as Avalon Hill's [I]Squad Leader[/I], with 200,000 copies sold. [URL unfurl="true"]http://www.costik.com/spisins.html[/URL] I think you've got wires crossed a bit. Most war games back in the day, like Avalon Hill and SPI's bread and butter publications, were board wargames. "Hex and chit", commonly. Using printed game boards with counters for units that you moved around the board. Wargames using miniatures were a sub-set of the larger wargaming hobby, but more expensive and space intensive. A game of Squad Leader might take hours but could be tucked away in a neat box and put back in a convenient spot on a regular book case afterward. Avalon Hill had a whole line of boxed games for years they specifically titled "Bookcase games" ([I]Outdoor Survival [/I]is one of them, as is my copy of their [I]Starship Troopers[/I] game), which had a standard box size meant to have a similar footprint as a large encyclopedia or dictionary volume. Very different from the common long rectangle I always remember mass-market boardgames for kids coming in when I was growing up, and is still widely used (for [I]Monopoly[/I], e.g.) by the big boardgame companies like Parker Brothers and Milton Bradley. [ATTACH type="full" alt="AH BC.PNG"]253258[/ATTACH] Side note- [I]Dungeon! [/I]was originally sold in a smaller box, with a folding vinyl map. My first copy, OTOH, "[I]The New Dungeon![/I]" was the 1989 edition, which made the board bigger and fit it into the familiar larger rectangle shape/footprint of a mass-market boardgame for kids. There's a significant incident talked about in Game Wizards about [I]Fantasy Forest[/I], TSR's 1980 attempt at a mass market boardgame for kids, and the hundreds of thousands of dollars they lost due to the singular incompetence of a Blume in-law who was then head of Purchasing, who managed to buy boxes and boards for the game which were completely incompatible in size! A miniatures collection, on the other hand, at least takes boxes, and many of us collectors have extensive display shelves, and boxes and boxes of our unpainted stuff. :ROFLMAO: [I]Chainmail [/I]was a miniatures game, and the major wargame publishers initially saw this "fantasy gaming" fad as part of that sub-set. [/QUOTE]
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