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<blockquote data-quote="Stormonu" data-source="post: 5418851" data-attributes="member: 52734">Rolemaster, which somewhat evolved out of trying to make D&amp;D more &quot;immersive&quot;, hits all the same points.&nbsp; It's combat depth is pretty incredible (complete tables for each weapon &amp; armor for detailing effectiveness, as well as a slew of criticals and fumble tables).&nbsp; Spells certainly fit the flashy aspect (and go up to 50th level).&nbsp; Classes/professions are also used - they determine how many skill points something cost.&nbsp; And of course, it has levels.And WW's games are better known for being skill-based games, not class-based (unless you want to call being a Vampire or Werewolf a &quot;class&quot;).I think one of the big stick-outs for D&amp;D is actually levels.&nbsp; Most other games are skill-based games where you just get points to increase your skills, there's no &quot;leveling&quot; involved.&nbsp; Even Savage Worlds isn't really a level-based game, though it uses &quot;tiers&quot; to allow/deny access to certain edges.&nbsp; Also, unlike D&amp;D, you don't get automatic fixed upgrades like D&amp;D's enforced improvements to attack bonus (BAB or THAC0), saves and level-dependent class abilities.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Stormonu, post: 5418851, member: 52734"] Rolemaster, which somewhat evolved out of trying to make D&D more "immersive", hits all the same points. It's combat depth is pretty incredible (complete tables for each weapon & armor for detailing effectiveness, as well as a slew of criticals and fumble tables). Spells certainly fit the flashy aspect (and go up to 50th level). Classes/professions are also used - they determine how many skill points something cost. And of course, it has levels. And WW's games are better known for being skill-based games, not class-based (unless you want to call being a Vampire or Werewolf a "class"). I think one of the big stick-outs for D&D is actually levels. Most other games are skill-based games where you just get points to increase your skills, there's no "leveling" involved. Even Savage Worlds isn't really a level-based game, though it uses "tiers" to allow/deny access to certain edges. Also, unlike D&D, you don't get automatic fixed upgrades like D&D's enforced improvements to attack bonus (BAB or THAC0), saves and level-dependent class abilities. [/QUOTE]

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