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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Dragonblade" data-source="post: 920443" data-attributes="member: 2804">Excellent post!Unfortunately, life is interfering a bit with my ability to post long treatises on the nature of high level gaming so I'll try to type as fast as I can.Basically, the reason that I think most people have a problem with high level gaming is because they have never played high level gaming in a balanced system.  1st and 2nd edition D&D broke down considerably at high level because of the imbalance created by the power of the PC's compared to the rest of campaign world.  In a game world where the default assumption is that NPCs are 1-3rd level then PC's in the teen levels become nigh unstoppable.  The DM is forced to tailor his adventures more and more to curtail their abilities so they don't run amok.Everyone knows that something is wrong but no one knows what really.  When holding up the PC's to the rest of the world it seems that what seperates them from everyone else is items and magic.  Hence if we strip these away from game balance is restored and everyone has fun again and the DM doesn't have to work as hard.But even though we have cured the sympton you haven't really cured the disease which is that the D&D's default assumptions as flawed.  If you want to run a low magic world smoothly, it takes more than just nerfing spells.  You have to nerf or edit monsters as well.  You also have to restrict level to a certain point or simply give so little experience points that level advancement is delayed to such a degree that high level play is never really reached.I have seen all these tactics mentioned in this thread and others, often described in glowing terms by those who use them as if not using them is to not really "role-play".  This elitest attitude is what I most take umbrage at and is what led me to post this in the first place.  But I digress.Its interesting for me to examine this attitude because it seems to have evolved somewhat from the flaw in the game of PC magic compared to NPC magic.  Those who don't play in these low magic games have experienced the game breaking down for them, not having any fun at all and thus making them subconsciously cling to their low-magic worlds.  In other words, you have been conditioned to not like high level/ high magic gaming since you have never had any fun doing it.  And you have never had any fun playing at high magic/levels because the rules are flawed and the game breaks down at higher levels.Now some of you might disagree with this and thats fine.  If you truly object to the notion that you have been programmed, albeit inadvertantly to like low-level gaming to the exclusion of all else, then I believe you. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />  But I do think there is a kernel of truth to my theory.Anyway, I often use high-magic and high-level interchangeably because the two are invariably intertwined.  At higher levels it is impossible to maintain game balance without magic and vice-versa, higher magic also requires higher levels to maintain game balance.  To illustrate this better, notice that when magic is stripped from the game, WotC's designers were forced to introduce the concept of Defense and base it on level.  See this in d20 Modern and in Star Wars and Spycraft.  Not also that there are other subtle changes to the game to attempt to offset the stabilizing factor that magic no longer provides.  For example, the wound/vitality system, and having high level NPCs be more common.Now if we break away from the default assumptions that D&D makes and allow for magic to be more common and for NPC's to be of an average higher level than high level gaming becomes viable.  SHARK's world is a perfect example.  A high level game world, with tons of magic and yet its just as gritty and role-play intensive as the coolest low-magic setting.  SHARK has broken the shackles imposed on him by the rules.  The PC's operate at a mid to high magic level but the rest of the world does as well.  So from level 1 onward into Epic levels, balance is maintained without a problem.Okay, I have to go back to work now so I'll let you guys digest this and await your responses. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></blockquote>

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