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<blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 8614711" data-attributes="member: 22779">Something that should be clarified here too.&nbsp; Saying that D&amp;D is not a simulation is not in any way an indictment of D&amp;D.&nbsp; It's not.&nbsp; It's not a negative thing in any way.&nbsp; It's no different than saying chess isn't a simulation.&nbsp; That's not an indictment of chess.&nbsp; It's just that D&amp;D isn't really a simulation game and generally doesn't work like one.&nbsp; And, frankly, has never been intended to be one.I know we've been going on and on about HP and combat, but, let's step to the left into the skill system. It's all pass/fail.&nbsp; There's no real narrative generated here at all.&nbsp; We don't know how you did anything.&nbsp; When you succeed on a climb check, you climb half your speed.&nbsp; Ok, fair enough - but, if you fail that check, what happens?&nbsp; All we know is you don't move forward.&nbsp; That's it.&nbsp; And, where it gets really weird is in social skills.&nbsp; You want to make the bartender friendly so you can pump him for information.&nbsp; So, Diplomacy check.&nbsp; There's no real narrative generated there.&nbsp; What did you say?&nbsp; How did you do it?&nbsp; No idea.&nbsp; And, not only that, but, any narrative you do before the check can be invalidated by the check itself.&nbsp; In one way, it's kinda/sorta simulationist in that you shouldn't narrate anything until after the check - but, again, any narrative you come up with is valid, the fluff doesn't matter, to use the terms in this thread.Imagine a more sim approach.&nbsp; The two characters set goals for the interaction, the bartender wants to upsell his wares and the PC wants to pump him for information.&nbsp; Each character has a pool of &quot;social HP&quot; that are ablated by successful checks by the opponent.&nbsp; So, in the first round, the bartender wins, the PC loses some &quot;Social HP&quot; and has to buy a more expensive drink.&nbsp; In the second round, the PC wins, rolls well for his &quot;social damage&quot; and wins the encounter.&nbsp; There, now we have a narrative that is generated by the mechanics, although with lots and lots of room to come up with various narratives, but, some narratives are off the table because now we have some information to work with.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Hussar, post: 8614711, member: 22779"] Something that should be clarified here too. Saying that D&D is not a simulation is not in any way an indictment of D&D. It's not. It's not a negative thing in any way. It's no different than saying chess isn't a simulation. That's not an indictment of chess. It's just that D&D isn't really a simulation game and generally doesn't work like one. And, frankly, has never been intended to be one. I know we've been going on and on about HP and combat, but, let's step to the left into the skill system. It's all pass/fail. There's no real narrative generated here at all. We don't know how you did anything. When you succeed on a climb check, you climb half your speed. Ok, fair enough - but, if you fail that check, what happens? All we know is you don't move forward. That's it. And, where it gets really weird is in social skills. You want to make the bartender friendly so you can pump him for information. So, Diplomacy check. There's no real narrative generated there. What did you say? How did you do it? No idea. And, not only that, but, any narrative you do before the check can be invalidated by the check itself. In one way, it's kinda/sorta simulationist in that you shouldn't narrate anything until after the check - but, again, any narrative you come up with is valid, the fluff doesn't matter, to use the terms in this thread. Imagine a more sim approach. The two characters set goals for the interaction, the bartender wants to upsell his wares and the PC wants to pump him for information. Each character has a pool of "social HP" that are ablated by successful checks by the opponent. So, in the first round, the bartender wins, the PC loses some "Social HP" and has to buy a more expensive drink. In the second round, the PC wins, rolls well for his "social damage" and wins the encounter. There, now we have a narrative that is generated by the mechanics, although with lots and lots of room to come up with various narratives, but, some narratives are off the table because now we have some information to work with. [/QUOTE]

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