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<blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 8618765" data-attributes="member: 22779">See, this is where I'm getting tripped up.&nbsp; HP in D&amp;D are Mario Cart, not Forsa or Not-Forsa.&nbsp; Not-Forsa is still a simulation, even though it is not as accurate as Forsa.&nbsp; But, there's still lots of information being generated by the system.&nbsp; As you say, Forsa generates so much information it can actually be used to train real world drivers.&nbsp; Presumably Not-Forsa could also do the same thing, although not as well.Could Mario-Kart be used for driver training?&nbsp; I don't think so.&nbsp; All the information that Mario-Kart produces only correlates to the game itself.&nbsp; It in no way tells us anything useful outside of the game state.&nbsp; You could play Mario Kart for a thousand hours and still not know a single thing about driving a car.&nbsp; Now, the question of &quot;where in the spectrum does a system become a sim vs not-sim&quot; is an interesting one.&nbsp; I'd say that like any spectrum, there is no hard and fast line.&nbsp; When does blue become not-blue?&nbsp; Personally, I would draw the line at intent.&nbsp; If the system is trying to be a simulation, then it likely is one.&nbsp; If there's nothing in the system that suggests that it's trying to be a sim game, then it probably isn't one.&nbsp; D&amp;D famously isn't trying to be a simulation of anything, so, I'd say that it isn't one.&nbsp; That &quot;3&quot; that [USER=6801845]@Oofta[/USER] uses to describe the sim level of D&amp;D means that it's far enough down the line that the lack of intent makes it a not-sim game.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Hussar, post: 8618765, member: 22779"] See, this is where I'm getting tripped up. HP in D&D are Mario Cart, not Forsa or Not-Forsa. Not-Forsa is still a simulation, even though it is not as accurate as Forsa. But, there's still lots of information being generated by the system. As you say, Forsa generates so much information it can actually be used to train real world drivers. Presumably Not-Forsa could also do the same thing, although not as well. Could Mario-Kart be used for driver training? I don't think so. All the information that Mario-Kart produces only correlates to the game itself. It in no way tells us anything useful outside of the game state. You could play Mario Kart for a thousand hours and still not know a single thing about driving a car. Now, the question of "where in the spectrum does a system become a sim vs not-sim" is an interesting one. I'd say that like any spectrum, there is no hard and fast line. When does blue become not-blue? Personally, I would draw the line at intent. If the system is trying to be a simulation, then it likely is one. If there's nothing in the system that suggests that it's trying to be a sim game, then it probably isn't one. D&D famously isn't trying to be a simulation of anything, so, I'd say that it isn't one. That "3" that [USER=6801845]@Oofta[/USER] uses to describe the sim level of D&D means that it's far enough down the line that the lack of intent makes it a not-sim game. [/QUOTE]

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