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<blockquote data-quote="Ovinomancer" data-source="post: 8619234" data-attributes="member: 16814">I think you have your logic reversed, still.&nbsp; If I say A occurs, then I know that all not A does not occur.&nbsp; If, however, I say that some set of not A doesn't occur, I cannot say that A occurs because there's still some set of not A that isn't precluded.&nbsp; So arguing from the position of not A being precluded means simulationism isn't sufficiently distinct because lots of rules include precluding sets of not A.&nbsp; Take hitpoints -- if I take hitpoint damage but still have hitpoints left, then &quot;you die&quot; or &quot;you fall unconscious&quot; or &quot;you turn into a black hole&quot; are precluded by the system.&nbsp; This isn't sufficient to say that hitpoints are simulationist.&nbsp; And we can say some set of A is required by not losing all your hitpoints -- we do know something about the fiction here that isn't negative -- you are absolutely, positively still in the fight.Arguing from the negative here doesn't really work. I.. what?&nbsp; That opening is pure special pleading -- you've just handwaved away the entire point of defining simulationist rules.&nbsp; That point is so we know them when we see them.&nbsp; But, here, you've literally said that rules that aren't simulationist can pass your test but that doesn't matter because they're... I dunno why they'd get the special privilege here.As for Blades, no, again.&nbsp; If the result is 4-5, the GM cannot narrate failure and MUST narrate success with a complication or cost commiserate with both Effect and Position.&nbsp; On a 3-, the GM cannot narrate success and MUST level a cost or complication commiserate with Position.&nbsp; In all cases with Blades, the result absolutely precludes fiction but doesn't tell you what actually happens in the fiction.&nbsp; These mechanics provide who gets the &quot;say&quot; in the outcome and puts constraints on that say, but do not dictate what happens in the fiction at all.&nbsp; Success can be a wide range of things, cost and complication can be a wide range of things.&nbsp; The outcome of the dice don't dictate fiction, they dictate who gets to say what about the fiction.You are?&nbsp; I don't have that in my rulebook.&nbsp; It just says, &quot;if 0 hp, then incapacitated.&nbsp; Also make death saves.&quot;&nbsp; The only fiction requirement is associated with the incapacitated condition, and that's got nothing at all to do with description of injuries!</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Ovinomancer, post: 8619234, member: 16814"] I think you have your logic reversed, still. If I say A occurs, then I know that all not A does not occur. If, however, I say that some set of not A doesn't occur, I cannot say that A occurs because there's still some set of not A that isn't precluded. So arguing from the position of not A being precluded means simulationism isn't sufficiently distinct because lots of rules include precluding sets of not A. Take hitpoints -- if I take hitpoint damage but still have hitpoints left, then "you die" or "you fall unconscious" or "you turn into a black hole" are precluded by the system. This isn't sufficient to say that hitpoints are simulationist. And we can say some set of A is required by not losing all your hitpoints -- we do know something about the fiction here that isn't negative -- you are absolutely, positively still in the fight. Arguing from the negative here doesn't really work. I.. what? That opening is pure special pleading -- you've just handwaved away the entire point of defining simulationist rules. That point is so we know them when we see them. But, here, you've literally said that rules that aren't simulationist can pass your test but that doesn't matter because they're... I dunno why they'd get the special privilege here. As for Blades, no, again. If the result is 4-5, the GM cannot narrate failure and MUST narrate success with a complication or cost commiserate with both Effect and Position. On a 3-, the GM cannot narrate success and MUST level a cost or complication commiserate with Position. In all cases with Blades, the result absolutely precludes fiction but doesn't tell you what actually happens in the fiction. These mechanics provide who gets the "say" in the outcome and puts constraints on that say, but do not dictate what happens in the fiction at all. Success can be a wide range of things, cost and complication can be a wide range of things. The outcome of the dice don't dictate fiction, they dictate who gets to say what about the fiction. You are? I don't have that in my rulebook. It just says, "if 0 hp, then incapacitated. Also make death saves." The only fiction requirement is associated with the incapacitated condition, and that's got nothing at all to do with description of injuries! [/QUOTE]

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