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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Leatherhead" data-source="post: 5770908" data-attributes="member: 53176">I find when I sit down and talk to people who "hate*" Vancian magic, the specific things they hate about it are a few spells from the wizard spell list (yes, the wizard list list is the first one to fly off the tongue, with the other casters thrown in after a bit of reminding). So it's not so much the fire and forget mechanics, as it is "wizards can do what?!"Which, in my mind, translates into nobody actually hating Vancian magic.I find the underlying system better than spell points or the equivalent, if simply due to less math in game from recalculating variables on the fly. My favorite systems involve non-expendable resources, like in Mage. However, I honestly don't see anything like that being involved in a group-based game that hinges on the idea of limited resources.My personal hatred for magic is to regulate it into being elemental flavored arrows and swords.*: meaning the emotion that makes people froth at the mouth with rage and vitriol, not simply dislike</blockquote>