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D&D lovers who hate Vancian magic
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<blockquote data-quote="jbear" data-source="post: 5772466" data-attributes="member: 75065"><p>I love D&D but I'm not a fun <span style="color: Orange">(edit: I mean fan. A curious error to have made and revealing as to my beef with Vancian magic)</span> of vancian magic. I wouldn't go so far as to say I loathe it but i do dislike it.</p><p></p><p>The why is trickier to explain for me. </p><p></p><p>One of the reasons I can put my finger on has to do with what a wizard is doing for the first 4 levels of his career. I began playing AD&D and it was the same issue in 3.5. My basic experience was that it was just a matter of survival until they gained access to level 3 spells, particularly fireball which would then just about end any fight. </p><p></p><p>Secondly, I really don't think a wizard carrying a crossbow fits AT ALL. Can anyone imagine Gandalf using a crossbow. Me neither. Merlin? Fizban? Raistlin? Well, they are the icons of wizardlyness for me. I think Vancian magic pushes the wizard to use a weapon that no wizard with any self respect would just to remain useful for the first levels of their career. </p><p></p><p>I know these comments are only based on my memories and so only true/relevant in a very limited degree, but I guess its the feeling of having such a limited amount of things to do for such a long time (we never took characters any further than lvl 7) was what taints my memory of Vancian Magic.</p><p></p><p>Thirdly, I think as some people have criticised 4e and the magical nature of martial characters encounter and daily powers, questioning why they couldn't pull off those maneuvres ad infinitum; I guess I would question the same thing about wizards. Why does their brain get wiped when they let loose a tiny bolt of magic? Why can't they pull that off til ... I don't know ... their brain gets tired? And how do you memorise the same thing twice anyhow? Again, I just can't imagine Gandalf suddenly going: "How did that light spell go again!!?? Drats, just slipped my mind. Need to hit the books again."</p><p></p><p>The cleric never suffered this as much because they could wear armour and swing a mace. They were useful even when they ran out of spells. Perhaps that is why I always favoured playing a cleric. I wanted to be able to do awesome supernatural stuff. But I didn't want to always have to be hiding in the back accumulating xp til I was tough enough to survive a hit and clever enough to remember a decent handful of spells. </p><p></p><p>Anyway, those are my reasons. I can't really defend them as they come from a feeling which is directly stemming from my personal experience. I certainly don't consider Vancian magic a defining feature of D&D. I'd be sorely disappointed to see a return to it without seeing the addition of the casters at will signature spell to the wizard's base capability. Wizards with Crossbows ... honestly ... <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin :D" data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="jbear, post: 5772466, member: 75065"] I love D&D but I'm not a fun [COLOR="Orange"](edit: I mean fan. A curious error to have made and revealing as to my beef with Vancian magic)[/COLOR] of vancian magic. I wouldn't go so far as to say I loathe it but i do dislike it. The why is trickier to explain for me. One of the reasons I can put my finger on has to do with what a wizard is doing for the first 4 levels of his career. I began playing AD&D and it was the same issue in 3.5. My basic experience was that it was just a matter of survival until they gained access to level 3 spells, particularly fireball which would then just about end any fight. Secondly, I really don't think a wizard carrying a crossbow fits AT ALL. Can anyone imagine Gandalf using a crossbow. Me neither. Merlin? Fizban? Raistlin? Well, they are the icons of wizardlyness for me. I think Vancian magic pushes the wizard to use a weapon that no wizard with any self respect would just to remain useful for the first levels of their career. I know these comments are only based on my memories and so only true/relevant in a very limited degree, but I guess its the feeling of having such a limited amount of things to do for such a long time (we never took characters any further than lvl 7) was what taints my memory of Vancian Magic. Thirdly, I think as some people have criticised 4e and the magical nature of martial characters encounter and daily powers, questioning why they couldn't pull off those maneuvres ad infinitum; I guess I would question the same thing about wizards. Why does their brain get wiped when they let loose a tiny bolt of magic? Why can't they pull that off til ... I don't know ... their brain gets tired? And how do you memorise the same thing twice anyhow? Again, I just can't imagine Gandalf suddenly going: "How did that light spell go again!!?? Drats, just slipped my mind. Need to hit the books again." The cleric never suffered this as much because they could wear armour and swing a mace. They were useful even when they ran out of spells. Perhaps that is why I always favoured playing a cleric. I wanted to be able to do awesome supernatural stuff. But I didn't want to always have to be hiding in the back accumulating xp til I was tough enough to survive a hit and clever enough to remember a decent handful of spells. Anyway, those are my reasons. I can't really defend them as they come from a feeling which is directly stemming from my personal experience. I certainly don't consider Vancian magic a defining feature of D&D. I'd be sorely disappointed to see a return to it without seeing the addition of the casters at will signature spell to the wizard's base capability. Wizards with Crossbows ... honestly ... :D [/QUOTE]
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