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Message: <blockquote data-quote="SteveC" data-source="post: 5775780" data-attributes="member: 9053">I think the dislike for Vancian magic has been with us for a long time, basically since the beginning of the hobby. The very first alternatives to D&D, Tunnels and Trolls and Runequest, both had a spell point system to them.For me, I was playing D&D back in that day, and didn't like Vancian magic at all. I played both Tunnels and Trolls and Runequest, and games like In the Labyrinth, but none of them really worked for me as well overall as D&D did.Then, in 1982 I came across Champions, the first effects based system, and when I started to play Fantasy Hero I saw no further need for D&D. I still played it because it was the big dog on the street, but I was much happier with everything else.When 3E launched, I found that it addressed a lot of the other problems I had with D&D, even if it still had the vestiges of the old Vancian system, and it of course took off light wildfire. I found myself enjoying the game despite the magic system, since for a D&D style game, 3E was a very nice system (especially before the splat books).Towards the end of the 3X period, I again started playing other games because the system's flaws were becoming more evident to me. Then there was 4E, and the problem was finally solved: I could play a wizard right from the start that didn't need to carry around a crossbow or darts! Heck, I could play a martial character who didn't have to be second fiddle to spellcasters! It only took about 30 years for the game to catch up with what I had been looking for my whole life.</blockquote>

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