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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 5784925" data-attributes="member: 22779">However, GG, I would point out that Fire and Forget magic has already undergone a pretty serious shift going into 3e.  Both clerics and druids got spontaneous casting, which, at least for clerics, was a HUGE change in how they played.IME, your 1st level cleric spells in AD&D were almost all (if not all) cure light wounds.  It didn't really matter how long the spell list available was.  1st level, you took as many CLW spells as you could and that number likely never went down.  3e, OTOH, meant that you could take any number of different spells and still perform a standard function - healing.Also, some time into 3.5, we got Reserve Feats, which also make a big change in how casters function.  Being able to fire away with an effect every round until you ran out of slots of whatever level the Reserve Feat was tied to made a really big difference in how casters were played.I think where Celebrim makes a mistake is in the idea that we have to go all or nothing.  Either it's 100% F&F magic, or it's freeform.  That's wrong.  I think you can modify the F&F system to the point where you have some F&F magic, some effects that are stripped out of the standard casting set entirely (Ritual Magic) and some effects that should be done (mostly) all day long.I don't think too many people are terribly interested in casters where you spend the first three levels with at most, three spells per day and the rest of the time, you throw darts.  Or in casters where the system is largely telling you (or at least strongly pushing) what you should be taking.</blockquote>

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