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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 5785542" data-attributes="member: 4937"><p>I note that the standard of what is Vancian keeps getting higher and higher.&nbsp; If the presence of wands is sufficient to make the system non-vancian, then no version of D&amp;D has ever been Vancian because they've all had the assumption that M-U's would pick up wands that would allow them to do something other than sling darts and poke things with a staff.&nbsp;&nbsp; IME, it was a rare published module or DM that didn't place a Wand of Magic Missiles or a Staff of Striking with a few charges somewhere to give spellcasters additional options.&nbsp;&nbsp; Even before easy crafting, scrolls where also one of the most common treasures, both in published modules and on the random table.&nbsp; They were also one of the more accessible crafted items even in 1e, and one of the few sorts of items that I found 1e DM's would allow players to buy from shops/temples in limited quantities.</p></blockquote><p></p>

[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 5785542, member: 4937"] I note that the standard of what is Vancian keeps getting higher and higher. If the presence of wands is sufficient to make the system non-vancian, then no version of D&D has ever been Vancian because they've all had the assumption that M-U's would pick up wands that would allow them to do something other than sling darts and poke things with a staff. IME, it was a rare published module or DM that didn't place a Wand of Magic Missiles or a Staff of Striking with a few charges somewhere to give spellcasters additional options. Even before easy crafting, scrolls where also one of the most common treasures, both in published modules and on the random table. They were also one of the more accessible crafted items even in 1e, and one of the few sorts of items that I found 1e DM's would allow players to buy from shops/temples in limited quantities. [/QUOTE]

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