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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 5786372" data-attributes="member: 22779">Well, GamerPrinter, we saw it all the time to be honest.  When the cleric ran out of healing the group stopped.  And that's been true since the 1e days, also across 30 years of gaming and a fair number of groups.  For me, the 15 minute adventuring day wasn't a wizard thing, it was a cleric thing.  You run out of healing, it's time to stop.Thing was, in earlier editions, you could go a fair bit longer because the combat was just so much less damaging than in 3e.  1e was lethal more because of the proliferation of SoD effects (where healing doesn't really matter anyway) than damage dealing.  The monsters were just so much weaker relative to the PC's.  3e changed that.  I can't remember ever seeing a combat in 3e where the PC's didn't take damage.  Sure, some PC's might get through (probably the wizard), but, some of the PC's were taking damage, and usually fairly significant damage.So, out trots the cleric and heals.What stopped the 15 MAD for us was healing wands.  Adding in healing wands made the game pacing so much faster - we'd easily doubled the number of encounters between rest periods.So, the 15 MAD was a direct result of Vancian casting, and the solution was to eject Vancian casting in favor of (what is effectively) at will healing.jmucchiello - I'm a bit confused.  At what point in D&D's history wasn't the wizard based on artillery.  That was his role direct from wargaming.  Your 1st level MU had his Sleep spell that was an auto-win for a single encounter every day.  Sounds a lot like artillery to me.  So, I'm not really seeing the point in your questions.Celebrim - really?  You're going to start claiming now that crafting wands was common in AD&D?  And, no, a Vancian caster with a wand is not the same as a Vancian caster.  Wands are inherently non-Vancian.  Multiple wands + scrolls means that you no longer have the "forget" part of Fire and Forget magic.  It's changing Vancian to an at-will system.</blockquote>

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