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D&D lovers who hate Vancian magic
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<blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 5787067" data-attributes="member: 87792"><p>No it isn't. Point Buy is a mechanical solution to the <em>simulationist</em> problem of Vancian Magic. That it resembles nothing, not even the works of Jack Vance and playing a wizard who knows he's going to forget things when he uses them is painful. And most people don't find it helps the narrative structure either.</p><p> </p><p>The fifteen minute adventuring day is an issue caused by the pacing of adventures not being fast enough. Because to be fast enough, the pacing would have to be about that of Jack Bauer in 24. 1e had its solution to the 15 minute day; rolling for wandering monsters every ten minutes. Sleeping for 8 hours in a dungeon would therefore require <em>48</em> wandering monster rolls. Not gonna happen.</p><p> </p><p>But once you get out of the dungeon, in order to keep the classes balanced you need an average of four fights per day. To put that into perspective that's a fight before breakfast to wake you up, one mid morning, break for lunch, a fight mid afternoon, and one just before dinner. Unless you're a commando unit in hostile territory there needs to be a <em>reason</em> people are wasting people attacking you. And needs to be a ticking clock to prevent you forting up. This <em>massively</em> restricts the narratives that D&D provides strong support to - for instance hexcrawling in the wilderness. What wilderness hex is that dangerous? (Yes, I know people <em>do</em> it. But there's a world of difference between doing something with the rules and being supported by them). Pathfinder's Kingmaker simply encourages a near-Nova pattern for almost all combats if you run it in PF.</p><p> </p><p>That said, this isn't a problem specifically with Vancian Magic - but with the resting scales of D&D. Putting the fighter on a different scale from the wizard is a mistake, as is hardcoding a wizard-rest to 8 hours. (I'd hard code the wizard-rest to 8 hours <em>in a library</em> and the 15 minute day vanishes).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Neonchameleon, post: 5787067, member: 87792"] No it isn't. Point Buy is a mechanical solution to the [I]simulationist[/I] problem of Vancian Magic. That it resembles nothing, not even the works of Jack Vance and playing a wizard who knows he's going to forget things when he uses them is painful. And most people don't find it helps the narrative structure either. The fifteen minute adventuring day is an issue caused by the pacing of adventures not being fast enough. Because to be fast enough, the pacing would have to be about that of Jack Bauer in 24. 1e had its solution to the 15 minute day; rolling for wandering monsters every ten minutes. Sleeping for 8 hours in a dungeon would therefore require [I]48[/I] wandering monster rolls. Not gonna happen. But once you get out of the dungeon, in order to keep the classes balanced you need an average of four fights per day. To put that into perspective that's a fight before breakfast to wake you up, one mid morning, break for lunch, a fight mid afternoon, and one just before dinner. Unless you're a commando unit in hostile territory there needs to be a [I]reason[/I] people are wasting people attacking you. And needs to be a ticking clock to prevent you forting up. This [I]massively[/I] restricts the narratives that D&D provides strong support to - for instance hexcrawling in the wilderness. What wilderness hex is that dangerous? (Yes, I know people [I]do[/I] it. But there's a world of difference between doing something with the rules and being supported by them). Pathfinder's Kingmaker simply encourages a near-Nova pattern for almost all combats if you run it in PF. That said, this isn't a problem specifically with Vancian Magic - but with the resting scales of D&D. Putting the fighter on a different scale from the wizard is a mistake, as is hardcoding a wizard-rest to 8 hours. (I'd hard code the wizard-rest to 8 hours [I]in a library[/I] and the 15 minute day vanishes). [/QUOTE]
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