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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 5787450" data-attributes="member: 87792">I don't like spell point systems - they feel far too controlled for most fictional magic to me.  My preference is for a mix of aspected magic and random success where you can do a lot with a little range. Of course not.  You just have the problem of the 3.X fighter but that's a whole different kettle of fish. Yup.  8 hours at a temple goes with the 8 at a library.Let's run the numbers.  Assume that each of the four fights per day is against one creature of medium size or larger.  Assume that the battle is to the death and the PCs win.  Assume an adventuring party of 4.  This means that each PC on average kills one person per day - or 365 people per year.Further assume each adult woman has one child per year.  In that one year, assuming that no one else dies to anything other than trying to fight a PC, the 4 PCs kill enough people that an entire villiage of 700 dies to nothing but PCs.The middle ages were more violent.  But not that much more violent.  (The big problem comes in when you have Goblin Den-Mothers whelping a dozen to a litter).This is the case if and only if you take the classic wizard class out behind the woodshed, shoot it, burn the body, then bury the ashes under a crossroads mixed into a block of cement.  In the whole of Lord of The Rings Gandalf casts maybe half a dozen spells.  I think the number's far lower.  A third level wizard gets to do that in 2 days in AD&D.  And when you're up to seven spells in a day (i.e. 5th level AD&D wizard) you have so much casting you're making these wizards you claim to emulate look like pikers.Replace the wizard class with something more like the 2e or 3.5 Bard class - something that's simultaneously a loremaster, able to swing a blade, and can cast a few spells, and has trickery and you're a lot closer to Gandalf, Merlin, or any restricted magic caster than the Vancian wizards have ever been.  The argument you're making for Vancian wizards in terms of narrative pacing is one that applies in a low magic world.  The wizard class belongs to a high magic world.I wouldn't object to Vancian casting with spell memorisation for 4e daily powers.  (For that matter I wouldn't object to a 4e class that got Wizard dailies and Bardic or even Martial everything else and Vancian casting).  But the benefits you see in Vancian casting are as you yourself say "resembles the general feel of any narrative where in the wizardly  character has mysterious reasons for not using magic most of the time".  This would be true if the wizard brought a lot to the table other than spellcasting.  He isn't a loremaster or a bard or able to wave a sword around.Which is exactly the point I was making <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />And now I see where I caused the confusion.  I meant the in world pacing.Other than Moria, 8 hour rests don't seem to be a special problem for them.  They do that once per night.  On the other hand if you move them to a pattern where the extended rests happen at Tom Bombadil's, Rivendell, and Lothlorien then things fit a lot better.IMO quite a bit higher than in hostile areas.  In hostile areas the PCs may meet wandering patrols.  In friendly ones, above low levels anyone attacking the PCs knows who they are and is likely to be loaded for bear.  Of course the likelihood of meeting a high ECL combat challenge on any given day is pretty low.</blockquote>

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